Has anybody ever used these bullets for said caliber? I've read on a website that these are not the best bullets to use because the jackets are too tough. Has anybody ever had bad luck using them on deer? Thanks to all in advance.

Best deer bullets that I've used in 303 Brit are the Hornady round noses, they work very well. I haven't used the Sierras. I have also used some of the 123 grain jsps for the 7.62x39 in a tight barreled Canadian Ross and it shoots them extremely accurately. I'll try them in my Jungle Carbine and if they shoot well in it's sloppier chamber, it might make a good woods loafing round for everything from varmits to deer and pigs.

regards,
Graycg

I shoot them in the 7.62x54R Mosin round. Haven't shot them at a critter, but I would not hesitate to use them. From reading posts here, I think the Sierras do have a bit more tendency to separate that some of the other brands, but that is made worse by shooting boat tails at close range and high muzzle velocity (magnums).

Speer makes a couple of nice bullets, too. Their HotCor bullets are poured in the jacket, and probably hang together well.

The most critical thing for all users of rifles chambered for .303 British to consider is the bore diameter of their individual rifle. Especially in the case of Lee-Enfields, bore diameters are all over the map, ranging literally from .308 up to something like .315 or .316. It has been said, however, that most are between .312 and .313.

Most American manufacturers (Sierra included) make bullets that measure .311. Hornady is the notable exception, and that superb company makes bullets that measure .312. The slightly fatter diameter of the Hornady bullets may be the reason why I've personally had the best accuracy results with Hornady bullets when reloading the .303 British. There must be something to the bore diameter issue because the most accurate .303 factory ammunition I've ever used in the various .303 rifles I've shot over the years has been surplus Belgian stuff made by FN in the 1980s. Perhaps it is no surprise, but I measured that Belgian bullet an found it to mic around .3125. This experience suggests that in .303s "fatter is generally better".

Regarding expansion, Hornady .303 bullets are supposedly designed to give optimum performance at the velocities generated by the .303 British. The only problem -- if it is a problem -- is that the 174-grain Hornady bullet is of round nose design, while the Sierra 180 is a spitzer. This precludes making longer shots with the Hornady simply because bullet speed falls off rapidly in round nose desings, especially when started at such modest velocities. On the other hand, Sierra bullets are supposedly designed for optimum performance at slightly higher velocities than the .303 British generates, so which is really better?

I have personally written to Mr. Hornady asking that his company release a 174-grain SST in .303 to yield the ultimate deer bullet for the .303 British, which to this day remains hugely popular in the U.S., Canada and Australia. He wrote back and said that it was an "interesting" idea. Perhaps if more people write in and request this bullet, the company might start making it, and all of our prayers will be answered.

By the way, about five years ago I also wrote to Mr. Nosler and asked that his company start making bullets in .303 caliber (ideally, a 174-grain Ballistic Tip) and he wrote back saying that they would do so shortly -- but to date, no such luck.

Your question related to the suitability of the Sierra 180-grain spitzer for deer. I'm sure it would work, though at longer ranges it might not open up properly. Conversely, the 174-grain Hornady Round Nose might not be ideal at longer ranges, either, because it loses velocity more rapidly. Therefore, I'd suggest that if your rifle finds the Sierra bullet accurate, use it.

As it stands, there appears to be one other option for a spitzer-type bullet weighing 180 grains in this caliber. It is the Australian Woodleigh Weldcore bullet. The Woodleigh is described as a "Protected Point", which means it probably resembles the profile of the Speer Grand Slam bullet. It is also worth noting that the Woodleigh is a true .312 bullet and all accounts suggest it's accuracy is phenomenal. People who use it also say that it's performance is comparable to the Nosler Partition. I've never used this bullet but I would love to try it some day. I was told, however, that the price for Woodleighs in Canadian dollars was over $80 for a box of 50, so that day is going to be a long while away, sadly.

I hope this discussion has been helpful. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say on this subject.

I fired some 180 grain Sierras into wetpack at 200 yards with good results. Expansion was a bit uneven (lopsided), but good enough. Weight retention averaged 75%. Muzzle velocity was about 2400 fps.

Water jug tests at 20 yards gave 75% weight retention too. The jugs couldn't tell the difference between them and 165 grain Hornadys fired from a .30-06.

Bye
Jack

I have used the 180 Sierra on a deer. It was just last hunting season. I used a max charge of IMR4350 it gave me 1.5 MOA out of a #1 Lee-enfield. I never did chrono this load but it must have been about 2400fps. I did find the pointed seirra to feed better than any round nose in this rifle. The deer I shot was a white-tail buck at about 75 yards. I shot him while he was on the move at a steady pace through relitivly open timber. The bullet hit the spine (not where I intended) and of course the buck dropped. A finishing round was immediatly placed in the lungs at the same distance. The bullet preformance was exactly what one would expect from any 180 grain .308 or .311 bullet traveling at that velocity. Little meat damage around the spine but with a nice hole in the bone showing good (but not violent) expansion. The lung shot looked the same, damage to the lungs and a nice exit hole in the ribs. Nothing spectacular just good preformance. I am not sure how this bullet preforms at lower velocity but I would think it should be fine. The guys at seirra probably designed the bullet around the 303 british and it's velocity since it is by far the most popular rifle to use .311 bullets at 180 grains. If you don't want to reload I belive that federal uses the sierra bullet in their factory load, at least the ones we get in Canada have it. I hope this helps.

Thank You guys for your time, it is greatly appreciated. Seems as if the website I investigated might have been wrong. I choose not to mention the name of the site, because I don't want to cause a controversy. So I'll let that lie. It's good to know that there are people in here that are willing to experiment, and share, and I'm the same way. Thank You all again.

[ 08-18-2003, 15:59: Message edited by: Crazy Cledus ]

CC,

I load ONLY the Sierra 180 in my .303s. I am trying to duplicate the military ball ballistics in a game load so as to be able to use the military sights. Works fine. The Sierra tech told me that the bullet was designed for the .303. And, yes, I called because I heard exactly what you have about this bullet's toughness. Of course, I'm not shooting out to 300+ yards on game.

I'd also like to mention that I use the Woodleigh 215 gr. RN in my 7.65x53mm Argentine military carbine. I do this because I believe the sights were designed for the use of the original 7.65x53mm round which used the 215 gr. bullet. This bullet in this gun performs well for both accuracy and terminal ballistics when started at a measured 2050 fps from the carbine barrel. For those who are interested in this rimless .303 (in the 1891 action), the carbine shoots close enough to point of aim with 150 grain Norma and Argentine manufacture ammo to be usable on deer to 150 yards (provided you can see the deer through/over the sights!). No wonder the Argentines didn't change the sights on these carbines (or add a chart plate the way the Swedes did).

I have used the Hornady 150 grain and 174 grain and Speer bullets. They do perform well (the Hornady 150 can be loaded to almost 2700 fps with IMR 4320). A friend used the Hornady 150/IMR 4320 load in his No. 4 rifle to headshoot a doe at a measured 150 yards, factory sights and 2 witnesses.

Another friend only used the Hornady 150 in his No1 MK III based sporter. I believe that he has even killed elk with his rifle as well as quite a few deer. He used to carry the rifle as an LEO for the USFS and I was told had to sometimes finish off deer and other animals for various reasons. He always expressed a great deal of faith in his rifle and load. I think he also loaded IMR 4320 but that was in the late 60s to early 70s and I'm not certain of that.

IAC, I think you'll be very satisfied with the Sierra if it meets all your other requirements.

Hobie, Thanks man, rather informative info. I'll try this bullet then. What is your recipe for this bullet, powder, primer, etc. I'll be using it in a customized No4 Mk1. Thank You

Regarding Hobie's observations, I will confirm that my (admittedly limited) testing to date shows that the Hornady 150-grain Spire point and IMR 4320 are like turkey and cranberry, lamb and mint sauce -- chocolate and peanut butter. A truly great combination. In stronger actions like the No.4 and the P-14, I think that 46 grains of IMR 4320 with that bullet gives fantastic accuracy and ballistic consistency, and it speeds along at 2,700. Actually, in a P-14, you can go even higher and use the same charges as the .308 because the case capacities of the .303 British and the .308 are virtually identical, and that robust P-14 action is more than strong enough for any .308 load. This is why in my mind the P-14 is the King of the military .303s.

In the old SMLE, however, I back the charge of 4320 off a bit to something around 44.5 grains, which is also very accurate. It pushes that Hornady 150 out around 2,600 from my sporterized SMLE (20-inch barrel) with similarly excellent accuracy and consistency.

It's been a long time since I've worked with a .303, but in the SMLE that I once had, RN bullets were virtually impossible to feed, but spire points (spitzers) fed flawlessly. I don't know if that was peculiar to my magazine or is endemic with the Lee Enfield.

As the last writer observed, the 150 grain Hornady spire point should be a perfect deer bullet in .303. After all, I use nothing heavier in my .308 and it takes whitetails regularly and efficiently.

The Euro-African hunters near the turn of the century (and many latter-day Euro-Africans as well) thought of the .303 as a universal game rifle, even for rhino and elephant, but they were using 215 grain solids and didn't expect their quarry to be stopped in its tracks.

Well, Cledus, I've used the Sierra .308" 200 gr. PSPBT in a .303 jungle carbine with IMR 4350 at 2100 FPS. It was not only extremely accurate, but killed deer like lightning. Never recovered a bullet, though, so they might have been "too tough". However, the deer (big mulies) shot with it never voiced a complaint even once!!

Thank You guys for the additional info. I have a box of the 180's I intend to use, for now at least, and my carbine LOVES to eat 180 gr. Power Points, in the factory loaded format, so I figured I would try to fiddle around with these bullets, and try to get the same accuracy, and knock down, but using a .308" bullet in a .311" bore, and still get good accuracy, though? I have some IMR-4350, IMR-4064, and some Win. 748, with Rem. Primers, Win. Primers, and some CCI's as well, Thank You again.

I plan to use these bullets in a customized No4 Mk1 SMLE, with a 16 1/4" match barrel, this sounds weird, I know, but even though this "carbine" is short, it works well for deer in timber, where I and my stepson normally hunt, he likes this carbine a lot, as well as I, and I, nor he plans on shooting deer at a distance of more than 200 yds., with this carbine, either in timber or across a small "field", this weapon was made in Fazakerley, England, and it has the 300/600 yard "flip over peep sights". This is truly a remarkable customized carbine, and I plan on keeping it for a very long time. Thanks again fellas, from the the U.S. and Canada, "we're all in this together", to quote Red Green, Heh-Heh,

[ 08-24-2003, 11:10: Message edited by: Crazy Cledus ]