I am loading for a 35 Whelen I built on a VZ-24 Mauser. The only part I hired out was chambering an Adams and Bennett barrel.

The brass wants to stick in the die, in the neck area. If I back off the die so only the neck is sized, it still gives me lots of resistance. It sticks as the ram nears the top of the stroke, when the die is reducing the outside diameter of the neck. It does not give unusual resistance expanding the neck, just at the top of the ram's stroke.
This rifle was giving me protruding primers and stretched cases, even a cracked case head. I found it closed on a no go gage. I pulled the barrel and corrected the headspace. I don't think that is related to my problem.

Lubing the outside of the case neck seems to help for a little while, but not 100% of the time. I thought maybe my Lee die has a rough neck area, so I polished it a little, but I doubt I polished enough to make a difference. The die seems to work better when it is clean, but not for long.

This is a problem because I am pulling out some shoulders, making it hard to chamber, or I over size my brass, causing ignition problems and short brass life.

I wondered if my chamber neck is cut too large, making the fired brass bigger than it should be. I measured some once fired brass before and after sizing. Once fired Remington 35 Whelen brass, before sizing - the outside diameter of the neck was 0.386. Neck sizing reduced it to 0.375. Is that normal?

Do I need a different die, or a new chamber?

It's good that you got the headspace fixed.....are you sure it's fixed right?....assuming so...I have a similar problem every time I use a new die....I stick brass in it a couple times.....and it seems I just don't get proper lube on the die and brass.....I just bought some Imperial sizing wax...I hope this solves the problem....you're not alone here...I'm having the same problem with a 9.3 X 62.....very similar to the .35 Whelen

FWIW the .011 case expansion isn't out of line.....I think your problem is in lubrication now that you've corrected the headspace.

Because you are useing lube with your Lee Die, I am going to assume it is a Lee Full Length Die and not a collet die, correct?

What kind of lube are you using?

It is a Lee full length sizing die, that I have backed off to only size the neck. I am using Lanolin nipple cream for lube, but it did the same thing with imperial wax. In the 15 or so other calibers I load for, this is the only one I have had to lube the outside of the neck, and the lube does not help much.

I have go and no go gages. It closes on go, it doesn't close on no go, so I feel the headspace is correct, now.

I'm glad that the .011 is not too much neck expansion. The chamber is a lot harder to fix than a die. I think I need to buy a new die.

Any other ideas?
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
.....I just bought some Imperial sizing wax...I hope this solves the problem.....

:eekOH ? Roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
.....I just bought some Imperial sizing wax...I hope this solves the problem.....

:eekOH ? Roger

Are the sized case necks showing any run-out? I'm thinking that the die neck may be off-center or possibly angled.
.

Personally I'd send the die back to Lee. They are pretty good at replacing problem dies. Just tell them it's sticking in the neck and pulling the shoulder out. Only gonna cost postage.

Goldy

I have not checked for run out. You may be right.
I may send the die back to Lee. I took it apart last night to clean again. First I rounded off the thingy with a crescent wrench. Then I noticed that the threads are damaged. I got mad and ordered an RCBS die set. And some more bullets(Hornady 200g .358 sp.) And three boxes of 7.5x55 ammo.

Last week I promised myself I wouldn't spend any more money on shooting this year. Last night was my second order since then. Tonight, the first order arrived, including a box of Hornady 200 grain spire points! Now I'll have 2 boxes, so I'll have to buy a couple pounds of powder to go with them.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
... I got mad and ordered an RCBS die set. ..

That will fix the problem.

Some Lee products are excellent and some leave a bit to be desired.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
Once fired Remington 35 Whelen brass, before sizing - the outside diameter of the neck was 0.386. Neck sizing reduced it to 0.375. Is that normal?

IMO, no.

Your caliber diameter is .358". The die is supposed to size the inside diameter a few thousands less than that to facilitate bullet seating and grip. For instance the Lee Collets size the inside diameter only .001" smaller. After you factor in the neck thickness then you will find your die has a problem.

For instance if the die was sizing normally with only .002" bullet grip then the math would be: .375"-.358"=.017"/2 (allowing for the brass thickness on each side of the neck) = .0085". No brass is that thin. Most brass is in the range of .013" to .017" thick.

So if your neck brass thickness is normal and around .014" then the math would be .375"-.014"-.014"=.347"-.358"=.011" bullet grip which is extremely excessive.

On the other hand if your brass is normal thickness at .014" then you need to neck turn. The math would be .386"-.014"-.014"=.358" the exact diameter of your bullet. You would need to turn your brass down to .0125" in order to allow for the recommended clearance of .003" around the neck on a loaded round. Even then you would need to size the inside of the neck down to .002" or .003" bullet grip.

So you have a tight necked chamber, which is good and normal for a custom barrel. You just need to learn to deal with it. Normally that means using Redding Bushing Dies and turning necks.

But that die that sized down to .375 outside neck diameter for a 35 Whelen is defective in that it is sizing way too small.

You stated that you polished the sizing die. Kinda like polishing a turd, don't ya think. I have all but quit using Lee dies. I have been replacing the pistol dies sets with RCBS and the rifle dies with Redding. Lee dies kind of remind me of a professional auto technician using cheapo made in China tools to work on a new Cadillac.

Quoting Luckyducker
"Kinda like polishing a turd, don't ya think"
Boy howdy I like that one.


muck

I agree with Woods - it sounds like your Lee sizer is reducing the necks TOO MUCH!

Check several case necks after you size them in the RCBS die. Compare this diameter to the diameter produced by the Lee die - with the expander plugs removed from both dies, of course........

No properly-lubed case should stick in the die, regardless of whether the die is new or old!

Woods and Win 69 were right.
The I loaded up some Hornady 200 grain round noses. They are a short bullet, and you could clearly see that the bullet was expanding the neck. A few of them were also expanding out all on one side, making bad runnout.

I never noticed a runnout like this with other bullets, but I'm sure it was happening. I'll probably send the die back, but I'll probably keep using the new RCBS when it gets here.

Now you need to address your other problem. Since you measured the outside diameter of your neck and got .386", you need to factor that measurement into your case prep. .386"-.358"=.028". In addition to that you need to allow .003" clearance between your loaded neck and the chamber, so .028"-.003"=.025". That means that you need to have brass that is no thicker than .0125" each side.

I would be very surprised if your new brass is that thin. If you do not turn the neck brass down to .0125" then you will not have enough clearance for easy chambering and in the worst case you will have a neck that is against the chamber walls which could lead to increased pressure.

Do you have a good method for measuring your neck thickness?

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Do you have a good method for measuring your neck thickness?

Couldn't I measure a bullet, then load it and measure the cartridge neck od, subtract the bullet diameter, divide by two?

Isn't there a certain amount of springback in the neck? If my fired neck measures .386, can't I assume that the chamber neck is slightly larger? How much larger? Does anealed or new brass spring back more or less than work hardened brass?

Thanks for the help, so far. I should get my die Monday or Tuesday. I'll take some comparison measurements. I'll also measure some reformed 30-06 brass. It should end up thinner than the 35 Whelen brass. I would rather use 30-06 anyway.

I got my new RCBS die today. I sized some brass and measured necks.

1) Twice fired 35 Whelen, R-P.
Fired, unsized neck OD 0.387
Sized neck OD 0.376
Speer 250 grain sp measures .357 OD
Neck OD with bullet seated 0.379
That gives a brass thickness of 0.011.

2) Twice Fired 30-06, R-P.
Fired unsized neck OD 0.387
Sized Neck OD 0.377
Same bullet 0.357
Neck OD with bullet seated 0.380
That gives a brass thickness of .0115

With both brass, I have .003 grip on the bullet.
The re-formed 30-06 brass is slightly thicker, opposite of what I expected.

Sizing was much easier with the new die, so my original problem is solved.

Are my brass, die, and chamber matched, now? Doesn't sound like I have to turn necks.

You have .007" to .008" clearance around the neck on a loaded round so you do not have to turn necks and with a fairly thin neck at .011" to .0115" it would not be advisable.

I am surprised that your brass has such thin neck brass. If you have not already turned that brass then that is the thinnest factory brass that I have seen. If you get new brass and it is thick at say .014" then you will need to make new decisions.

Thanks