This is probably a newbie question, but I'll ask anyways.

After looking in the Sierra and Speer relaoding manuals for 168 gr. (SMK and Gold Cup) I've noticed a difference in powder weights for Varget. Sierra lists their max at 43.5 grns and Speer lists theirs at 46 grns. On the low end Sierra lists theirs at 38.7 grs while Speer is at 42 grns. What gives?

By the way, can anyone list a good, safe load for the .308 using Varget?

Varget From 32.6 grains to 46.5 grains
Remington 9-1/2 Primer

But I preferred:
N-550 From 40.7 grains to 48.9 grains
Remington 9-1/2 Primer

My go to .308/168 load uses 45.5 grains of Varget in Winchester, Federal Gold Medal or Lapua brass. Both Winchester Large Rifle and Federal 210M primers have worked well for me. That load just carries the mail day in and day out. I have fired many thousand of those with total satisfaction. enjoy.

Lawndart

44.5 grns Varget (1.5 grns under max load)
Fed GM brass
Fed 210M Primers
165 grn Nosler B-tip

This is my most accurate .308 load.
Gets 2700 fps from a 26" barrel (Steyr rifle)
Shoots bugholes @ 100 yds
Drops deer dead.
Wins cash off my buddies.

Elmo

quote:

Originally posted by Winny1:
This is probably a newbie question, but I'll ask anyways.

After looking in the Sierra and Speer relaoding manuals for 168 gr. (SMK and Gold Cup) I've noticed a difference in powder weights for Varget. Sierra lists their max at 43.5 grns and Speer lists theirs at 46 grns. On the low end Sierra lists theirs at 38.7 grs while Speer is at 42 grns. What gives?

This is not at all uncommon and one should get used to it.....It's merely reflecting the differences in the totallity of equipment used by the two companys.
Don't let this point cause bad thinking however....the fact that one source of authority is different than another does not mean that the data is valueless.....The logical conclusion is "Hell, I can just keep adding powder"....and it's simply not so. Max listed loads are simply max for the tools and measuring devices used at the time.

As you have already been advised, there are many variable that come into play as to load data. Sierra data, with the Match Kings, that I have seen is fairly conservative. That could be for several reason...one being that those bullets are made and generally used in target/accuarcy loads and lower velocity ranges in those bullets seem to be more accurate...at least my experience.

Assuming you are using for target shooting (long range +200yds) the 175's will be better. We shoot 600 F class style using Lapua Brass, 43 grains of Varget (you should start lower and work up), 175 gr SMK...nominal velocity 2590 fps...very accurate...

For some reason SIERRA is really conservative on this one. I talked the tech support and even he said its too low and not sure why. I go with the 46gr max. I have tried it in three rifles with no pressure signs. But I get best accuracy with 45gr and 168gr matchking.

I use Varget 42.2grs. with the Sierra 168gr. HPBT Match. It give me a velocity of 2600fps. and groups usually at .8". That's not half bad considering it's being shot in a Browning Micro-medallion with a short 20", thin barrel that weighs only 6.0 lbs. This is not a max load, but there's very little to gain in velocity. Another 1 gr. increase gives me only an additional 30fps, hardly worth the increase in powder. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

My load out of a 20" Browning: 165gr + 44gr Varget + Lapua brass + WIN primer. I get very consistent velocity at 2600-2610. I seemed have found the max ammount to generate this consistency. I also noticed very small velocity increases (20-30fps) after the 43gr mark. I chose to go one more grain to 44gr to top my velocity out at an even 2600. (Up from 2580)

Thanks everyone for the input. I have been trying for several months now to find the "right" load for my rifle. It seems to like both 175 and 168 SMK's. I have shot several .6 & .7 groups but am not happy with the velocity I am getting. Going to try 44.5 grs Varget on top of a 168 grn Speer BTH this weekend.

Thanks again.

My Steyr Scout shoots 46.0 Varget and a 165gr Partition decent enough for most of my hunting I do with it. Here is a 200yd group:




Other 308's of mine have liked N-140 and 175gr SMK's. Or 46.0grs of WW-748 and 168gr SMK's. But there's lots of powders that seem to shoot well in 308's. I like the Varget for hunting loads because of it's temperature insensitivity......DJ

quote:

Originally posted by Winny1:
What gives?

Well, I wish someone would come up with a better
word than Maximum, as there is obviously no such
thing, precisely.
From the home of Varget, try

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/index.asp

The people that make it call it 2208, and they
reckon 46gr for 168gr .308 (but your maximum may be more or less.) Hopefully less. :-)
John L.

I wish people would stop SPLITTING HAIRS in their effort to be precise!

So, you call a listed max of 43.5 and another
of 46 as spliting hairs?
What about the characters who state," I'm loading 2gr over Max?
So what Max? Who's Max? Why Max?
How about we load to "C" (for caution)
Or you could pull your head in. :-)
John L.

Winny

Keep in mind that I stopped at 44.5 grains because of great accuracy with a small standard deviation and extreme spread(SD 10 and ES 24) in avg. velocities @ 2700fps. At 44.5 grains the powder is just starting to compress. At 46 grains my SD was 18 and ES was 32 and 2775 fps. Accuracy only degraded slightly. No pressure signs were evident. I speculate that the more compressed 46 grn load might have caused the slight increase in SD and ES. However, If I was looking for more speed, I wouldn't hesitate to go to 46 grns, as accuracy is still quite good. My shooting buddies are not as dumb as they look , so I gladly give up 75 fps to get deeper into their wallets.

djpaintles

What kind of fps do you get from that shorty scout barrel?

Elmo

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
So, you call a listed max of 43.5 and another
of 46 as spliting hairs?
What about the characters who state," I'm loading 2gr over Max?
So what Max? Who's Max? Why Max?
How about we load to "C" (for caution)
Or you could pull your head in. :-)
John L.

Those weights could very well be max, depending on the gun chamber dimensions. Max is when excessive pressure signs begin to show, hence the load is pushing pressures higher than SAAMI listings. There have been times, I have had to stop a couple grains from he manual listed weight because I was already exceeding the listed velocity and was showing excessive pressure signs. Other times, I've been able to get away with a grain more than the popular listing.

Hello,
If you think about it, if a mfg. would state the absolute maximum load in terms of pressure and to the point of destroying their "test" or what is known as a Universal Receiver, you can bet that someone would attempt to go "just a grain or two over that..." to gain that additional velocity. Velocity does not necessarily equate accuracy or better performance. You can over speed a bullet and destroy the bullet or produce poor results.
Sierra's manual usually lists what particular firearm was used to devleop their load data, so they are not using some super strong, unavailable action for commercial load development, but rather "real world" equipment for the consumer. Furthermore, if the firearms mfg's would reveal their "blue pill test loads" you can bet again, that someone would attempt to attain that for their "need for speed..." As to why two or more reloading manuals will quote different loads for the same cartridge, like the Sierra man says, he does not know, but I am sure each firm has their "guidelines" to go by and it would be a safe bet that they are cautious in what they put in print. Check out the maxiumum load of IMR4064 w/ Sierra 155Palma bullet for the 308 and see if you can get that much of that powder in the case? I think it takes a 10" plus drop tube to accomplish that trick. Go figure??
Favor Center!!
dsiteman

Elmo, Velocity averages about 2635 or so in the scout. I worked up to the load because it was printed on the side of the can of Varget. I think that some of the max loads are lower for gas operated guns. I've shot this load in 7 or 8 different 308's and have never witnessed any traditional pressure signs or abnormally high velocities. I've just gotten consistant good performance........DJ

Those weights could very well be max, depending on the gun chamber dimensions. Max is when excessive pressure signs begin to show, hence the load is pushing pressures higher than SAAMI listings. There have been times, I have had to stop a couple grains from he manual listed weight because I was already exceeding the listed velocity and was showing excessive pressure signs. Other times, I've been able to get away with a grain more than the popular listing.[/QUOTE]

My point exactly. But the WORD it self is
rather exact and doesn't describe the facts.
Your apology accepted :-)
John L.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dsiteman:
Hello,
If you think about it, if a mfg. would state the absolute maximum load in terms of pressure and to the point of destroying their "test" or what is known as a Universal Receiver, you can bet that someone would attempt to go "just a grain or two over that.

Sure, and "they" go over any figure posted,
but when the figures are obviously under
anyones "max" ie the original quote from the
Sierra's manual, some people then totaly disregard anyones listed "max", and use that
as a starting figure.
Maybe they should always list a pressure figure
along with the last charge weight; that may carry more weight.
I know pressure figures put the wind up me.
John L.

DJPaintles, That is the same load that I shoot out of my Rem Model 600. I get 2650 from the 165s and 2700+ with the 150s from the 18 1/2 inch barrel. I recently had a trigger job done on the rifle and have not had a chance to test it yet, but these loads printed 1-1 1/2 inches with a bad trigger.