I am FINALY returning to shooting and reloading for my handguns on a regular basis after a far to long absence. As you might gather from my tital, I will be reloading for .45acp, .40s&w, .38/357. I already have Federal 150 large pistol primers and need some suggestions on other large pistol primers as well as small pistol primers for my .40s&w and .38/.357.

But I am most in need of advise on what powders to buy. I have heard a great deel of good about VihtaVuori powders N310, N320, and Red Dot spacificly for the .45 & .40. Not sure what to use for the .38/357. What I wish most in a powder is it be #1-clean burning as possable, good consistant velocity,and meter well

I will be reloading almost exclusively 230 grain HP & FMJ/TMJ bullets for the .45acp, with a few 185grn XTPs, for the .40s&W bullet weight will be 155 and 165 grain FMJ/TMJ and HPs.
The .38/357 will see mostly 158 grain bullets of HP design.

I also plan on ordering bulk TMJ bullets for all above calibers from Rainier Ballistics for general plinking and funtarget shooting.

I am reloading for strictly fun shooting and plinking at this point. I had leat my obsession for rifle and muzzleloders kinda push my love of handguns to the back burner. Not anymore.

Thanks to all who help me out with this.

Regards,
Arthur.

For your 357, consider H110 or 296, they are essentially identical, meter extremely well (excellent consistency), and get good velocity without pushing the pressure envelope.
Only complaint anyone seems to have about the VV powders is the cost.

VV work great but you might want to seriously consider their cost and availability. I was loading 3N37 in my 9x19 and went to pick up another 1lb keg to finish up. It was $30! per pound!
I've been shooting Power Pistol in my 40 S&W and it works well and in kegs costs about 1/2 as much as the VV. Power Pistol should also work well in the 45.
I've used 231 in both 9x19 and 45 ACP and it's another powder that works well in these and is available and not too expensive. I haven't tried it in 40 S&W................................DJ

Art,

Personally, I am a big fan of Unique for most of my reloading for the 40S&W and the 357. But I don't think you would like Unique do to the powder fouling.

That said, for the 357, I tried Hodgdons Lil' Gun this year for some 158 gr. bullets and was very impressed with it's performance. It burned cleaner than Unique and gave me very nice velocities.

Good luck and welcome back to reloading!!

Accurate Arms #5

I like to see how much power I can get:

1) H110 and 158 gr XTP for the 357 mag.
Any primers will do.
The cases stick in a small revolver around 35,000+ psi and stick in a revolver with thick walls at 40,000+ psi, so the primer never seems to make any difference to me.

2) 40 S&W, 200 gr XTP, 800X powder. Any small pistol primers. The 40 with case support can go way higher in velocity than the 10mm [despite the gun culture myth] and that is the load that will get it there.

3) 45acp 230 gr FMJ, Power Pistol, and large rifle primers get me the best groups and most power at 100 meters [.7" 3 shot] in a rifle. Any pistol powder and any primers will get into recoil beyond what the handguns can take, but in rifles the loads can just keep going up.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
I like to see how much power I can get:

2) 40 S&W, 200 gr XTP, 800X powder. Any small pistol primers. The 40 with case support can go way higher in velocity than the 10mm [despite the gun culture myth] and that is the load that will get it there.

Have you pressure tested your 40 S&W loads??? Making the 40 S&W exceed 10mm velocities sounds like borderline insanity as would making any case of smaller capacity and same bore size exceed the velocities of a case with larger capacity and identical bore size and used in the same type firearm.........................DJ

I would also vote for Power Pistol in the .40 S&W, I've used it in my two .40's and had some great loads with the 155 grainers. Seems to burn clean and accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
I like to see how much power I can get:

2) 40 S&W, 200 gr XTP, 800X powder. Any small pistol primers. The 40 with case support can go way higher in velocity than the 10mm [despite the gun culture myth] and that is the load that will get it there.

Have you pressure tested your 40 S&W loads??? Making the 40 S&W exceed 10mm velocities sounds like borderline insanity as would making any case of smaller capacity and same bore size exceed the velocities of a case with larger capacity and identical bore size and used in the same type firearm.........................DJ

I have overloaded the 40sw and 10mm with 200 gr bullets and a dozen powders until no more powder would fit or the primer falls out.

The champ is the 40 s&w with 800X.

The 40 winner:

quote:

1) 800X IMR load [current web site]: "Hi-Shor"800-X 6.3 gr. 925 fps, 2610 psi, 4" barrel, 1.125" OAL, Speer 200 gr. FMJ

12.5 gr. and more requires double compression, 15.5 gr. the OAL springs out to 1.171", 15.5 gr. is ok, intense recoil +146% extra powder

The 10mm looser:

quote:

"Hi-Skor" 800-X 7.8gr 1130fps 32500 psi 800X, 200 gr. .658",

14.2 gr., G20 Barsto barrel, small case bulge, must stop, 82% extra powder

What does it all mean?
The large primer pocket in the 10mm case is too close to the extractor groove to sustain enough pressure to get 40sw velocities, despite the larger case capacity. Again; contrary to gun culture myth.

For safe & sane loading, stick to RELIABLE published data. Anything you get from forums like this should be taken w/ a very large grain of salt.
You can load all 4 handgun rounds w/ med. burners like Unique, WSF, PowerPistol & Universal. The 357mag will give you higher vel. w/ H110 or W296 or 2400 but if you only want to run one powder, go medium burners. Stay w/ large & small PISTOL primers only. Rifle primers offer higher pressures & little advantage in handguns. They also may be harder to ignite in some striker fired pistols or handguns w/ light hammer falls.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:

I have overloaded the 40sw and 10mm with 200 gr bullets and a dozen powders until no more powder would fit or the primer falls out.

The champ is the 40 s&w with 800X.

The 40 winner:

quote:

1) 800X IMR load [current web site]: "Hi-Shor"800-X 6.3 gr. 925 fps, 2610 psi, 4" barrel, 1.125" OAL, Speer 200 gr. FMJ

12.5 gr. and more requires double compression, 15.5 gr. the OAL springs out to 1.171", 15.5 gr. is ok, intense recoil +146% extra powder

The 10mm looser:

quote:

"Hi-Skor" 800-X 7.8gr 1130fps 32500 psi 800X, 200 gr. .658",

14.2 gr., G20 Barsto barrel, small case bulge, must stop, 82% extra powder

What does it all mean?
The large primer pocket in the 10mm case is too close to the extractor groove to sustain enough pressure to get 40sw velocities, despite the larger case capacity. Again; contrary to gun culture myth.

More than Doubling the maximum loads recommended by the manufactures in nothing less than ABSOLUTE AND COMPLETE IDIOCY. If you have truly attempted such stunts you are extremely lucky that you haven't already come to this realization while sitting in the Hospital Emergency Room having peices of a Handgun dug out of your forehead!

Sorry to be so blunt but you aren't some super-ballistician that can conquer the laws of physics and use more than double charges of powders without getting pressures into the EXTREMELY DANGEROUS levels.

If it was safe to put more than 6.3grs of 800X and a 200gr bullet @ 926fps they would do so. They would love to have a super powder that they could sell. It doesn't exist. You push stuff long enough you are going to break stuff, I really hope you don't hurt yourself or someone else with this lunacy..........................DJ

Tnekkcc,

I am suprised by your unreasonable desire to play outside the realm of sanity, let alone safety with your 40S&W.

But I am down right pissed that you would suggest this to someone on this site.

Regardless of how you want to put your own life and limb on the line, don't try to lead others into your deathwish when they are simply looking for some shared experience.

Even PO Ackley had enough sense to tie a string to the trigger and stand behind a barriar while trying to blow up a gun.

I have spent many thousands of hours overloading dozens of cartridges to document what happens.
I have spent many thousand of hours describing my tests on ~100 of the internet's handloading forums since the WWW got going. I have collected files of comments that amount to, "You are crazy and dangerous becuase I wouldn't do that, and somebody might read that, that is dumber than me."

What does it all mean?
To understand the reason you chose a primer, sometimes you need to know where is the edge of primer trouble. I have that information on 357 mag, 40sw, and 45acp. I am glad that AR is a cut above most other forums and has a good mix of those who can understand the benefits of raw data.

If someone challenges my statement that the 10mm lacks the power potential of the 40sw and he wants to know how I measured pressure, then I have data from the effects of pressure on the brass.

Trekcc, What you are doing is simply foolish. You can't accurately read pressure from it's effects on brass. You aren't smarter than all the professional ballistitians that use REAL PRESSURE equipment to test pressure and write their reccommendations based on what is safe.
I have a buddy who like you thought he was an "advanced reloader" and could safely exceed manual guidelines. He thought this until his rifle blew up and he was lucky to escape with his eyesight and without serious injury.

If you are stupid and arrogant enough to think you know more than thousands of other reloaders fine, but don't go mentioning such idiocy to beginning reloaders.

It's simple the 10mm is capable of shooting the same bullets faster then the 40 S&W AT NORMAL PRESSURES. Knowing that if you ridiculously overload both the 10mm will blow up first is really useless knowledge to the reloader. Stay within the recommended loads will keep any reloader away from blowing up stuff.

If a certain caliber isn't meeting your Ballistic needs, BUY A BIGGER GUN. It's lunacy to try and make a 308 Winchester equal a 300 Win Mag when you can just go and buy a 300 Win Mag. It's just as stupid to make a 40 S&W equal the velocities of a 10mm when you can just go buy a 10mm.

Other reloaders especially new ones, Please realize that putting more than double powder charges into his reloads is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and well as EXTREMELY FOOLISH. DON'T OVERCHARGE YOU'RE RELOADS! Stay within the guidelines and you can have a safe fun hobby. It's unfortunate that some idiot always has to push beyond sane limits.
If you want to make a list of what it takes to blow up certains guns and cases list it as so. Don't mention it under the guise of legitimate reloading suggestions. You might be hurting someone other than yourself......................................DJ

PO Ackley shared some awesome information regarding military actions and what it takes to blow them up. It's an excellent read.

That said, PO was performing his tests under the most safe conditions possible at the time, with the intent to blow up the actions, and certainly not with the intent of holding that action anywhere near his body parts, or anyone elses body parts.

So, tenkkcc, if you see me at the range, PULLEEZ don't shoot those loads!! I have seen it too many times through life where the reckless walk away with narry a scratch, while some poor schmuck is dead because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
I have spent many thousands of hours overloading dozens of cartridges to document what happens.
I have spent many thousand of hours describing my tests on ~100 of the internet's handloading forums since the WWW got going. I have collected files of comments that amount to, "You are crazy and dangerous becuase I wouldn't do that, and somebody might read that, that is dumber than me."

What does it all mean?
To understand the reason you chose a primer, sometimes you need to know where is the edge of primer trouble. I have that information on 357 mag, 40sw, and 45acp. I am glad that AR is a cut above most other forums and has a good mix of those who can understand the benefits of raw data.

If someone challenges my statement that the 10mm lacks the power potential of the 40sw and he wants to know how I measured pressure, then I have data from the effects of pressure on the brass.

I had 2 acquaintences like you one bought a S&W 44 special revolver that a "gs"had rechambered to 44 mag, he fired one round of 44mag ok but the second blew off the top strap & 1/2 of the cylinder luck was with him as he wasn't injured.The second man always loaded beyond max recommended loads and destroyed many rifles and handguns.I observed his fired brass that most of the primers had fallen out of and watched him use a block of wood to force open the bolt on his rifles.I wouldn't want to anywhere near you while you're pulling the trigger on a potential grenade!

aa#7 and blue dot would work well with all 3 calibers. i shoot rainer 230's with 11gr of aa7 and get an over 950fps out of my rock island and with good accuracy and it seems to burn clean. powerpistol doesnt seem to go as fast as #7 in a 45 and gets dirty. i have no experience with 40 but i think aa7 and bd would push the heavier bullets better like in the 9mm. both bd and aa7 make good 357 loads not quite as hot or fast as h110 but i dont know of any load data for h110 in a 40 or 45.

My most sincerest thanks to all who shared with me the benafit of their knowledge. I now have all the info I need to make and well informed powder choice.

Although it is NO WHERE AS EASY now as it once was ten or so years ago to get powder and primers around where I live, I can still get almost any powder I want except for VV. To my knowledge only one store carries it, but I have had awesome success with VV powders used in my Savage 10ML-II muzzleloader and I like them for HG as well.

Again thanks to all,
Arthur.

Ditto on the H110 for 357 Mag. I also really like Red Dot for 45 ACP.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
2) 40 S&W, 200 gr XTP, 800X powder. Any small pistol primers. The 40 with case support can go way higher in velocity than the 10mm [despite the gun culture myth] and that is the load that will get it there.

I call Bullshit, not only bullshit but Stupid and wreckless.

You sir are a FOOL and a danger to yourself and others!

attempting to turn the Short&Weak into a 10mm with 200gr bullets is flat dangerous.

the 10mm DOES shoot faster when you employ proper (slower) propellants

Your intentionally using fast propellants to generate primer pocket distorting peak pressures that destroys the brass is simply irrelevant.

there is more to loading and velocity than peak pressure. a lower pressure of longer duration delivered by a slower propellant usually generated higher velocity.

It's about total pressure/time inside the curve.

And while he might EQUAL the low performance 10mm loads equaling the old Norma or hornady loads will turn most (all but the strongest) 40Smith chambered pistols into modern art or
an expanding cloud of fragments....

Even in a very stron pistol looike a Colt 1911
what'll eventually get you is case blowouts in the feedramp gap, unless you have an aftermarket barrel with an integral ramp, and even then you can simply fit more SLOW propellant in the larger case.

You have by creating an artificial situation with a fast propellant proven absolutely nothing of practical value.

anyone following your advise deserves to blow themselves up.

AD

I have had good luck with velocity and accuracy in 45ACP, 40 S&W, as well as 9 MM with Bullseye. I havent loaded any 38 or 357 though. For plinking I would reccomend finding powders as versatile as possible to cut down on the cost if you shoot a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
but don't go mentioning such idiocy to beginning reloaders.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:


anyone following your advise deserves to blow themselves up.

AD

It is not advice, it is just data I have collected.

I have done allot of experiments and collected allot of data.
My 40sw and 10mm pistols have never blown up, but some guys who read my data online got bent.

I think some readers would like to know the ultimate limits.
I know I find it fascinating that the 10mm cartridge cannot support as much power as the 40sw.