Ok just ordered my new 444. Its a straight wall case correct? 3 die. I want to reload a lot of lead bullets with the occasional jacketed. Who has a taper crimp die? thats the one I want for lead right? and a roll crimp for the jacketed? looked at a rcbs and they had a roll crimp set didnt see taper. does Redding have what i want? The best place to order? any help will be appreciated thanks

Lee Precision Engineering - it is the Factory Crimp Die - if they don't have it in stock they will make it up for you. Normally takes about 10 days. Give them a call. I have about 15 different Lee Factory crimp dies. Nice folks.

Just order the Lee FCD from Midsouth, they're about $11, I have about 25 of em in various chamberings, great crimp dies.

http://www.midsouthshooterssup...m.asp?sku=0000690855

Ive got the lee factory crimp die for my 308 7400 works great for bullets with no cannilure but dont use it for lead. have it in other cals too. I want a taper crimp like i use for my 44 mags.

The taper crimp die I use for my 44 mag works great doesnt work the brass that much either. That lee factory crimp works good in my 308 as it squeezes the bullet. However i believe it works the brass pretty good. Is that what you guys use for lead bullets in the 444? Does that give you the best groups?

Ok had a talk with a friend . I assume the reason no taper crimp for the 444 is tubular magazine and a bigger bang than 44 mag. bullet could push into casing. Never had any problems with them in my old win lever though. but 444 is a big cartridge. any thoughts?

Call RCBS and Lee. Talk to their techs. You will get the risk management side of the discussion. I loaded some very hot 45-70 rounds and I used the Lee Factory Crimp die and I never had any problem with the bullet moving. I guess you could also give Hornady a call since they are the master today with their Flex Point round.

Good luck!

SD Shooter does the Lee factory crimp affect the accuracy since it squeezes the bullet. Also any thoughts about case wear and tear with the Lee factory crimp?

ALL of my .444 loads are crimped with the Lee FCD, you can see the crimp in the pic of the 355gr Beartooth target I posted in the Reloading forum for ya. I FCD crimp all my handloads if Lee makes an FCD for it, even some they don't!

http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html

Philbilly

Sorry for the delay in responding; I have been in meetings all day.

The topic of the use of the FCD has been discussed for years, especially regarding accuracy. So I am going to give you my opinion which may not be supported across the general
discussion. I have a Lee FCD for each caliber that I reload, running from 22-250 to 458 Win Mag. I am almost fanatical about accuracy and I won't keep a rifle that doesn't shoot at least MOA. I have rifles that consistently shoot 1/2" groups and a couple that shoot smaller yet. I started using the Lee FCD because I was planning a bear hunt in Canada and then the rest of the summer in Alaska. Canada is very restrictive on semi-auto rifles and I wanted a rifle that would provide several follow up shots. Additionally, my 16 year old son was along for the trip and I wanted both of us to use the same rifles in the same caliber. So we decided on the Marlin Guide Gun. As you know, this rifle is a lever action with a tubular magazine. At the time, Hornady had not developed their Flex Tip bullets, so we were using flat point bullets to prevent any type of recoil induced ignition in the magazine. We also needed to be sure that the recoil would not move the bullets deeper into the shell cases which of course would create potentially dangerous pressures. After lots of research, and lots of test loads, we determined that the FCD would prevent the movement of the bullet in the case. With more experimentation with other calibers (25-06, 308 Win, 30-06 & 300 Mag) I found that the FCD actually improved accuracy. It is a little hard to pin down the accuracy questions with a lever action in 45-70 just based on the lever action design. But it is easy to test accuracy with bolt guns.

The answer regarding accuracy is that the FCD made it better. I have to qualify the answer in that the variables have to be very controlled when testing. But we were finally able to get the 45-70 consistently grouping under 2" at 100 yds and well under 1" at 50 yards.

Regarding wear & tear on the case - Many years ago I went through my stage of pushing the limit on loads - if 3200 fps was good then 3300 was better, and 3500 was better still. After I came to understand the wear & tear on the bore as well as the brass I backed down on the velocity (and pressures). And I suddenly grasp another concept, that extreme velocity doesn't always make for accuracy. Over the years in shooting most of the major American calibers, I have learned that by backing down the velocity a couple of hundred fps, my groups would usually improve. And, the brass would last much longer. I also found that the case mounth would have fewer splits by using the FCD because the pressure of the die was spread over a larger area rather than just on the edge of the case mouth.

One more thing and then I will stop. I have a Marlin in 444. I have killed two elk with it and really can't say enough good about it. The 444 is not a long range round, but with good shot placement, it is outstanding. One elk was hit behind the shoulder, traveled about 30 yards and went down. The bullet passed all the way through. The other elk was hit on the point of the shoulder with the bullet traveling across and and breaking both shoulders. It went down immediately.

On our bear hunt in Saskatchewan, using our 45-70 Marlins, my son killed a really nice sow on the first day. I didn't get a bear on that trip. The next year I shot a rather old sow (on the last day of the hunt). At 60 yards I put the first round behind the left shoulder, traveling across and exiting through the right front shoulder. The bullet passed through both lungs. The bear, with a destroyed shoulder, ran 50 yards and stopped, at which point I put a second round through the bottom of the chest. The second round would not have been an immediate killing shot because it was too low.
But the bear flopped over on its side and that was the end of the matter. Neither bullet was recovered.

I loaded for 25 years before using the FCD. I wish I had learned about it sooner. Giver it a try - I bet you will find it worth the very low cost.

Good luck

The 444 Marlin is not a straight-walled case. It has a slight taper. But it does require a 3-die set as it cannot be sized and the neck expanded with one die.

444 Marlin
diameter on case body just above the rim = .471"
diameter at the case mouth = .453"

44 Remington Magnum
diameter on case body just above the rim = .457"
diameter at the case mouth = .456"

In addition to the Lee Factory Crimp Die I would recommend a Lyman "M" neck expanding die #7348739 for about $19. It prepares the case to accept the bullet better than any other expander.

Thanks SD SHOOTER and WRONGTARGET and all who have contributed to this thread!! Wow SD SHOOTER thats a great hunting story for sure!! Always wanted a 444 think Ill like it. And will be using a Lee factory crimp with my own cast 44 mag bullets.. Good Shootin to Yall from Kentucky !!!