Friends-

I have been handloading for 25 years and I just never got so technical that I measured distance to lands. In setting up a cartridge's OAL, I used the old smudged dummy round method.

Today, there are all sorts of rigs out there to actually measure distance to rifle lands down to the thousandths of an inch. Question is who makes the best and simplest rig out there for doing this?

Thanks in advance.

I use the rod offered by Sinclair International. It's simple to use and is very accurate. Stoney Point has a good one to. It's just that I happen to own the Sinclair and that's the one I am familiar with. Jim

Ya know, I never saw how any of those systems could be especially accurate, since they don't use a fireformed case. I want to know the distance from the lands to the bolt face, not to the head of a dummy case made to fit any gun.

I do it by seating a bullet long in a fireformed case, chambering it, then measuring it. The trick is to get a "just tight enough" fit between the bullet and the case neck. If it's too loose, it'll either stick in the throat or move in the neck when you measure it. If it's too tight, it will be forced into the lands by some unknown amount instead of just touching them. I use a neck-sizing die adjusted to size a very small amount of the neck. I like to be able to move the bullet with my fingers, with some effort.

mark, there only for reference. saami
i make all of mine using fire formed cases.
covered the same ground several years ago.
I have a stoney. works ok, takes getting a feel for it though.

Stony Point (like)OAL gague*...and I make my own cases from the ones fireformed in my guns.(I had to because many of mine are still wild). No big deal, just dill out primer pocket and tap. Have one for all 16 chamberings I load. Then use their OAL gague inserts to measure at ogive. And their handy Coparator insers to measure the loaded cartridge for headspace fit. Total investment less than $50. Sure beats smoking cases, dowels and running live loads through the chamber to measure.
* actually, I made the push tube part like theirs...from metal brake tubing.

I bought the stoney point gauge to mic my A-bolts and Rem 700. I discovered the freebore space each rilfe was too great to even consider the seating depth I would have to use. Only about 1/8" of the bullet would be in the case if I used the measurements. So, I packed it up and sent the tool back where it came from.

Simple? I can make you a simple one that will work for oh, let's see, how's $22 sound?

The Sinclair works great for me. All you do is insert a bullet into the throat and lower a rod through a guide until it touches the back of the bullet. You set a stop and then remove the rod and bullet. Insert a fired case and repeat the stop setting on a second stop. Remove the rod and measure between the stops and add the length of the bullet you will be using and you have the OAL to just touch the lands. Record the measurement and you can very accurately track throat erosion.

I use a fireformed case with a specific bullet just snug fit in the neck ,chamber it carfully so the lands push the bullet into the case and touching the lands, carefully remove it ,then measure it.

In a break action gun I can make you one for the cost of the bullet you want to use. Drop it in the chamber measure from the base of the bullet to the back of the chamber....reference that to a fireformed case and you're done.

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
I use a fireformed case with a specific bullet just snug fit in the neck ,chamber it carfully so the lands push the bullet into the case and touching the lands, carefully remove it ,then measure it.

Good idea!

And for anyone interested I can furnish a Sinclair-like tool for $22 ppd.

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
I use a fireformed case with a specific bullet just snug fit in the neck ,chamber it carfully so the lands push the bullet into the case and touching the lands, carefully remove it ,then measure it.

I do the same thing, except I dab some epoxy in the neck, chamber it carefully and then wait a day to remove it. Then I have a permanent reference case that I keep in the box with the dies.

I use the same method as gps7 and markl. I take a neck sized bullet from the rifle in question; cut the nect with a dremel tool, insert a bullet in the case with it well out of the case, and carefully chamber the round and extract it. I do this several times and mesure the overall length excluding any that hit the floor or have other problems. I take an average of the "good" ones, and use it as a starting point for seating depth experiments.

Please note that this is a slightly different measurement that one gets with a Stoney Point rig because my way measures OAL with the bullet seated against the bolt face, and the Stoney Point measures OAL with the bullet 'seated' against the shoulder. My method is a whole lot cheaper. Although I end up with lots of shells to use, I don't epoxy them although that would be OK. Kudude

I made my own gauge. I just use a piece of 1/4 inch threaded rod and put 2 nuts on it. I insert a bullet into the barrel after removing the bolt. I put the end of the threaded rod up against the bullet and screw the nut until it hits the back of the reciever, the other nut needs to be inside the reciever. I then take the bullet out and put in a case and again butt the threaded rod against the back of the case, and then screw the 2nd nut against the back of the reciever. Measure the outside distance between the 2 nuts and then subtract the thickness of the nut that was closest to the case with your calipers, then add the length of the bullet. You have just made your own OAL gauge with materials that you have in your shop. Pretty much all of us that are serious about reloading have a good caliper and that is the only essential tool. This is much easier than it sounds and takes only a couple minutes.

Gee maybe we need to use some kind of laser gadget so we can measure to .0000001"!

I initially had problems with the Stoney Point OAL guage. I'd take 3 readings and get three different lengths. There's definitely a learning curve here. You have to have a light touch, and it does get easier with practice. I now have quite a bit of faith in it. It's difficult if not impossible with some chambers since they are so long in todays rifles. You may not have enough space remaining to get a grip on the bullet. That's a common gripe today. Incidently, not all rifles shoot their best with bullets into the lands. You have to experiment a little with this one. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

After you get oal,how far do you have to back off to go ahead and make the load for a varmit rifle. I've read .020 but hear different measurements.I have read it here somewhere but cant find it again.thanks all.

Eraser, welcome to the boards.
There is no set distance to seat your bullet off the lands. The .020" figure is a good general distance for ammo to be used on a hunt. The idea being you don`t want any chance of the bullet jamming in the lands and sticking when you try to unload filling the action with powder.
I`d try seating your bullets at .005" increments off the lands and watching for your groups to shrink. When you see the groups start to open back up you know you`ve passed the "sweet spot" and go back and retry the last OAL that shot well. This distance should be the best for YOUR rifle. When trying other makes/styles of bullets you`ll likely find a very similar lenght to lands to be best and I`d use it as a place to start, going in both directions for a couple .005" increments.

quote:

Originally posted by Cal Sibley:
I initially had problems with the Stoney Point OAL guage. I'd take 3 readings and get three different lengths. There's definitely a learning curve here. You have to have a light touch, and it does get easier with practice.

Me too. I was trying to do it like the instructions say by putting a dowel in the muzzle and bumping the bullet back and forth. Got readings all over the place. Confusing as hell.

Now I just set the bullet back down in the modified case and use a light continuous motion to push to the lands, lock the nut and back it out. Get the same measurement everytime.

I don't know if I'm concerned with the fact that I'm measuring from the case head to the ogive rather than from the bolt face to the ogive because there should be less than .005" headspace on any rifle, right? I don't try to seat that close so the firing pin pushing the case forward before the powder ignites should not push the bullet all the way to the lands.

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
I use a fireformed case with a specific bullet just snug fit in the neck ,chamber it carfully so the lands push the bullet into the case and touching the lands, carefully remove it ,then measure it.

That's how I've been doing it for years... simple. I also save each bullet I've measured in the die box with a scrap of paper giving the measurment for where each touch the lands.