So I was looking at Woodleighs, North Forks, and other bullets and started wondering how you find data to reload these? Do you just go off your Barnes/Speer/Sierra manual says for that weight of bullet? What about off size bullets like 465gr or 550gr in .458 win mag?


The reason I ask is because I was going through a Speer reloading manual while reloading some TSX's for my .458, and I just went off the same size bullet in their manual for the RL7 load.

(went with a middle charge of 63gr), and then later after loading 10 I called my friend and asked him to check his Barnes book to hear that Barnes has 60gr as its max load for that weight of bullet and powder.

But Sierra and Speer have the max for the 500gr bullets at 65-68gr.


I am debating whether or not to pull these bullets, as this is above max in the Barnes book...but not above in the others.

bugle -

in all honesty, this is where lee's book, modern reloading, comes in very handy. i realize that to some, it is equivalent to slumming the back alleys of tiajuana, but all the same, the book will be helpful for starting loads, expected velocities, max loads, pressures etc.

if you've got the weight of the bullet, cartridge you're loading for etc., i can take a look, if you'd like. you're on the right track with what you're suggesting, but lee's data might help give you a head start and/or a safety margin.

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in all honesty, this is where lee's book, modern reloading, comes in very handy. i realize that to some, it is equivalent to slumming the back alleys of tiajuana, but all the same, the book will be helpful for starting loads, expected velocities, max loads, pressures etc.

Basicly this is exactly what he has done. The Lee book is a compilation of old data from the various powder manufactures, he just used data from a different bullet maker. Lee doesn`t even give that info just a generic powder charge and bullet wgt, no primer, case, bullet brand/style, ect.
Unless the same components are used the data isn`t always valid as he found. The bullet is the biggest factor IMO in pressures. The bearing surface, jacket and core hardness, all will have an effect on them. I`d personally pull the bullets and start over since there is such a diference in recommended max charge and the charge he loaded.

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I am debating whether or not to pull these bullets, as this is above max in the Barnes book...but not above in the others.

Without more details on the particular bullet, load and cartridge (there is more than one "458) it would be hard to tell. I also wouldn't tell you what to do unless I had had personal experience with that particular load; it's your responsibility to decide what is safe in your rifle.

What I can tell you is that I've worked up loads with Barnes TSXes, Barnes solids and other bullets of the same weight/caliber for a particular cartridge and in all cases thus far, the powder charge that was safe and worked well in one also worked well and was safe with the others.

Another couple of things regarding Barnes bullets. The old X bullet didn't have the grooves and may produce higher pressure than the newer TSXes. Barnes XLC bullets produce less pressure with a given powder charge than either the Xes and the TSXes.

Thanks for the info guys


To throw more data into the question...


I was loading off of the specs that Speer gave for the .458 dia 500 grain Grand Slam, and I am loading Reloader 7 with the Barnes .458 dia 500gr TSX

I've made a check with Quickload 3.3 and it seems that the suggested loads loads for the Speer GS 500gr. will give excessive pressures with the TSX 500gr. since the TSX is about 6.5 mm longer. Furthermore the software seems to indicate that Reloader 7 is too fast for this bullet weight. Of course this is only a guess.

When in doubt call Barnes or the manufacture of your bullet. They will have data for their goods. Although it may not be with the powder of your choice they should be able to help.

In the for what's it's worth department. Loadtech calls 60grs max for the Woodleighs 550 and 66.4 for the 480s.

Thanks guys



Ramrod- This is why I don't under stand all of these long bullet concepts. Why would the Woodleigh 550gr have a 60gr max and the Barnes 500gr have a 60gr max, but Speers grand slam 500gr have a 65+ max?

Is it only because Woodleighs 550gr takes up more case space then the GS, but is similar in size to the Barnes TSX?


I would like to start loading some North Forks or Woodleighs, but with no Reloading Manuals out with either it makes it for a hard decision.

Buglemintoday ----- I have been reloading North Forks for years. Use an equal weight bullet in the Nosler, Barnes or Swift manuals and start loading. If the North Fork bullet is slightly less weight than the bullet listed in the book, do a little interpolation and go with it. You don't want to start with the max load anyway, so you will be quite safe starting with the reccomended starting load and work up. If you don't start you will be limiting yourself from using the best bullet manufactured in this country today. Good shooting.

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This is why I don't under stand all of these long bullet concepts. Why would the Woodleigh 550gr have a 60gr max and the Barnes 500gr have a 60gr max, but Speers grand slam 500gr have a 65+ max?

I've found the Speer manual in many cases to be a bit more aggressive in load data than others. I would presume that you're loading a 458 Win. Mag. or perhaps a 458 Lott. In cases of that size, 5 grains of powder, percentage wise, isn't all that much. Also, in working up loads for a 458 Lott, I've found best accuracy in mid range loads and not with maximum published loads.

I have also tried RL-7 in my 458 Lott but it didn't give me the best accuracy. With 500 grain bullets, H335 has given me the best accuracy.

I make up loads all the time for strong guns.
I can figure out a starting point and work up.
STEEL in pistols has no data.
I have to make up all those loads.

When you make up a wildcat there are no data.
You have to make it up then.

If the gun is weaker than the brass, skip the work up part.

Bugle -
To load the Northforks you first work up the most accurate load in the bullet weight you wish to use. The "set up" bullet I use is usually a Sierra or, if Sierra doesn't have the type/weight I want, I look at Hornady & usually go with them. Once I have the accurate load worked up, including THE LENGTH TO OGIVE (NOT OAL) AND the measured velocity (by this, I mean the seating depth 0.010" off the lands as measured to the ogive). I then reduce the powder charge by about 8% and gradually increase it by anywhere from 1/2 gr. to 1 gr. at a time. The Northforks are always seated the same depth from the lands to the ogive as my "setup" cartridges.
Usually, I'll reach my accurate velocity with the Northforks with slightly less powder than I did with my "setup" cartridges. I use the 225 gr. NF in my .338 Mag. & it's deadly on moose and more accurate than Partitions. Each box of Northforks includes a procedure their loading. It does NOT include powder or charges. Once you try 'em, I'm willing to bet you're gonna like 'em. Bear in Fairbanks

SAFE???? OR SORRY???? The decision sounds pretty simple to me. Back off and start over. Tom.

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Originally posted by HEAD0001:
SAFE???? OR SORRY???? The decision sounds pretty simple to me. Back off and start over. Tom.

You have to do this w/ any bullet other than the one you load now. There is just enough diff. in mat'l. & bearing length to cause problems if your load is already near max. When ever I change bullets in a fav. load, I drop the charge 5% & work back up.

I am pulling the bullets tonight and going to 57gr

Thanks guys, I think I am going to order Woodleighs or Northforks and stick to them instead of the Barnes. Just something about shooting bullets that not everyone has

It takes a little common sense and being careful. I have some where a Nosler, Sierra, and a Northfork use the same load. I also have two rifles a .375 H&H and .338 WM that you sure don't want to use data worked up with Hornady bullets with the North Forks. In my .375, two grains less powder with the North Forks yields exactly the same velocity as Hornadys. The .338 is pretty much the same. In my 7x57, 9.3x62, .416 Rigby, I can use the same load. You just never know what to expect when changing components.

That is why they always call it working up.. even telling you don't start out at max load in a manual...

I'd disassemble the bullets myself...

there is tons of reload data on the net...

I do a lot of load development...

But the key is to find a reference point for that powder in that size of case, to know where a safe point is...

then you can work up or down from that point...

I always liked a quote from George Carlin that applies to reloading also...

" if you have a $10.00 head, then go ahead and buy a $10.00 helmet....."