I'm sure you guys have been working up loads, in say .5 grain increments, and feeling not too impressed with any grouping when suddenly you stamp out a 1/2" group. Naturally, you'd want to come back and verify this load, but what if all other groups were 2 to 2-1/2"? How confident would you be with this combo, even if it was repeatable at first.
I've got just that situation with a particular hunting rifle. Personally, I don't like anything that prints 2-1/2" groups at 100 yds, but if it's capable of the 1/2"...curious of your thoughts!

I'm not sure where to start, but certainly would like to help. (I'm a guy. We solve problems.)

First, maybe you could tighten up the question a bit. Are your 2" groups in ladders, or 3-5 shot groups of a single load?

When I get strange results like this I look at the rifle before proceeding. No sense burning powder and shot when the load may not be the issue. I have a rifle troubleshooting checklist I'll send you if you PM me.

Your use of the word confident suggests an appreciation for statistics and probability. You likely know that a 2" rifle will sometimes print a 1/2" group. That does not mean that it has the capability to do so more frequently. It's just the rifle god's way of driving you nuts.

Unfortunately it can require a fair amount of well-controlled methodical testing to determine a rifle's true nature. They're nearly all female. You might start by Googling David Tubb/ladder test.

Sorry to appear evasive. If you PM me I can likely provide some help. I'm retired, have the time.

Hey Brice,
It was mainly a topic for discussion because I'm stuck at home recovering from back surgery and was thinking about my last range visit.
I agree that the gun is sometimes the first place to look, but with other bullet/powder combos, this rifle did better overall. Then again, it didn't print any 1/2" groups either. I have several rifles I load for and most have the kinks worked out. This rifle is rather new in development but I seem to have a handle on its kwirks.
This particular powder/bullet combo just had me wondering how it could shoot so lousy with most of the loads until bam! out prints a 1/2" group. Then as I climbed the .5 grain ladder it went right back to open groups. Just one diamond in the rough.

One .5 group doesn't mean a whole lot. Did it repeat the big, big, small, big, big pattern?
FWIW, when I am "roughing in" a new rifle, I will use 1g spaces between loads. And I will shoot at least 2 groups with each charge. Only when I get something that is of interest do I go to smaller increments.
The ladder method works but it works best if you can shoot at 200-300 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckbill:
Hey Brice,
It was mainly a topic for discussion because I'm stuck at home recovering from back surgery and was thinking about my last range visit.
I agree that the gun is sometimes the first place to look, but with other bullet/powder combos, this rifle did better overall. Then again, it didn't print any 1/2" groups either. I have several rifles I load for and most have the kinks worked out. This rifle is rather new in development but I seem to have a handle on its kwirks.
This particular powder/bullet combo just had me wondering how it could shoot so lousy with most of the loads until bam! out prints a 1/2" group. Then as I climbed the .5 grain ladder it went right back to open groups. Just one diamond in the rough.

Yep, one 1/2" group is just a fluke in a 2/3 shot ladder when rest are 2+ ".

If you can repeat it with 5 shots - Will just be a coincidence.

If you can repeat it with 5 shots again - You just may have found an acorn!!!

AND that's why you always follow up on these potentially good flukes and coincidences.

Fluke is kinda how I feel, too. Obviously, I won't know until I can get back to the range. Just don't know how much powder/bullet I want to waste on a possible fluke. It's probably worth a 5-shot.

If you can do it two groups in a row, you might be on to something. Then I would suggest working with seating depth.

You never know. Many years ago I had a Hunter Class Bench Rest rifle built. Tight neck 308 Win.
Put a 36X Leupold on to load test. Half-inch groups, but not competitive. Increased the "Jump", the distance the bullet jumped/moved before it hit the origin of rifling by ten-thousandths of an inch. Next 5-shot group went .236". The next four 5-shot groups, all under that.

Ten darn thousandths of an inch! Whodda thunk?

I've never thought of load development as a waste of powder and shot because practice, practice, practice is what is the final determining factor. And if you don't have the practice in, how can you truly match one group against another?

Yes! Don't ever approach shooting and reloading with the idea its WORK - Keep it fun and enjoy.

Also, just think about the number of possible combinations in a simple reload work-up for a hunting rifle - Say 2 diff primers, 5 powders in 8 steps with 3 diff bullets and 3 COALs.

That's 720 possible combinations. If you happen upon 1 that looks unusually good never discard it to chance. Always follow-up.

Words of wisdom! Thanks for the responses fellas. I'm just trying to keep from going crazy sitting around. Back surgery just a week ago and I'm dying to get out and do some things. On a good note, all of my brass is in tip top shape. It's the one thing I can do. LOL

Are you so stove up you can't practice dry firing off the kitchen table? Set up your bags and put a spot on the wall and go to town. Many people improve their skills quite a bit by not having the recoil.
When you're properly set up, when you squeeze the trigger, the cross hairs should only slightly quiver. If they jump off the target, you're doing something wrong. That's something you can't tell when the rifle is under recoil.

good advice that.

It's what I do on the kitchen table.

Great idea, Wasbee!