have a Model 7SS 308 I use for close cover deer.anybody know of a low recoil load to brake in my son. a 125 balistic tip or a 125 sierra loaded down to about 2700 seems about right. what powder would you use? the gun is extremly accurate with the 165 sierra and 46 gr RL 15 but it kicks a little much for the youngster. this load would not have to be that accurate just good enough to hit a gallon jug at 50 or 75 yards to get the kid interested.

That is an excellent idea, and really you could throttle down to 2400 fps and have excellent results. I know folks shooting them in handguns down at 1900-2100 fps that are suprised how well they kill. That said, the best source of starting data would seem to be the small pistol rounds, ie the 30 Herret and 300 whisper. I wouldn't use the data with ball powders, ie H110, W 296 or AA 1680, but a faster rifle powder like RL7 ought to do the trick.

You're on the right track. A 125 grain bullet at 2700 is pretty much what the .257 Roberts does (in factory form), and it is noted for mild recoil.

I shoot 125 Barnes-X at 2900 for deer in my .308. I use either W748 or RL15. I don't have data close at hand, but RL15 is flexible enough that reducing the charge to get 2600-2700 shouldn't be a problem.

Another approach from the Alliant Powder web site (http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg.taf?_function=centerfire&step=2&bulletID=289&cartridgeID=1079&caliber=%2E308&cartridgedescr=Win%2E&bulletdescr=Sierra%20125%20Spitz) is RL7. They show a 125 Sierra in Federal brass at 2.700" with a Fed. 210 primer sparking 40.0 grains Reloder 7 giving 2,920 fps from a 24" barrel at 47,100 c.u.p.

I have no hands-on with RL7, but I see at http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/ they instruct you to reduce their listed loads 10% and work up. 40.0 minus 10% is 36.0 grains to start, and that should be about on the button for your velocity goal.

I'd use the Barnes-X if I could get it to shoot at all. A bullet that light in 308 needs to have controlled expansion to get good penetration.

I'd try to get a very accurate load. You should always keep the rifle more accurate than the young shooter, so he is always challenged.

Don

Eric,

This is just for paper right?
I would use the max loads listed for my chosen powder/bullet weight for the 30-30 and work up until I had the desired velocity.

Example:

30-30 125 grn 30.0 RL-7 @ 2.5" for 2630fps

308 125 grn 30.0 RL-7 @ 2.7" est. 2520fps

The MAX listed load for the 125 grain bulllet and RL-7 is 40.0 grains for 2920. I think you will meet your goal with about 33.0-35.0 grains of RL-7.

When you son is ready to hunt deer, consider the using 307 Winchester Data in your 308 loaded to full OAL. This works great with 30-30 bullets. I use the 170 grain partition to make ensure penetration. Practice loads for this can be made using inexpensive Remington bullets. I get about 2300 fps with 170 grain Partitions and instant kills on small southern whitetails.

DOC

[This message has been edited by DOC (edited 05-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DOC (edited 05-10-2001).]

yeah this is just for practice and letting him learn how to shoot the gun. all the penatration i will need is for a piece of paper or a coke can.anybody ever use the speer plinker bullet?

Eric,

I haven't tried the plinker yet but I just loaded a few rounds with the Speer 110 grn hollow points. I'm not sure how accurate they will be as I have 1-10 twist barrel on my 308 Magnum Research handgun. It's proven to like the 168 grn Sierra MatchKing. The benchrest guys that shoot light 30 cal bullets use 1-18 or 1-17 twist barrels. I can't wait to try them out though.

Have you thought about using cast bullets? I e-mailed Alliant Powder to see what they recommended as a load for Red Dot powder. I have pounds of it and needed a way to burn more of it. This is the reply I got back:

Red Dot can be used for reduced loads in the .308 with cast bullets,
following is some data for a couple of bullets, we have no data for reduced
loads with Red Dot for jacketed bullets and do not recommend any.

Lyman #311576 120 gr Cast 10.0 gr Red Dot 14.0 gr Red Dot
Lyman #311440 151 gr Cast 10.0 gr Red Dot 13.5 gr Red Dot

The grains of powder is Starting and Max. I hope this may help.

Sounds like you could try one of the 12 grains of pistol powder with a light bullet which has been mentioned off and on for the .308.

I think the author used red dot.

I don't have a .308, but have recorded 1,900 ft/sec out of a .280 reminton with 14.0 of 700x and 100 gr hornady HP bullets. This is basicly a cast bullet load from the lyman manual with the jacketed bullet subsituted.

As suggested in some articles, I drilled the flash holes to .110 inches so the primer wouldn't push the case ahead and reduce the case size with use.

I tried to find out if these loads were position sensitive, but couldn't find any difference in velocity (or zero at 100 yards) whether the powder was in the front or back of the cases.

And in case your were wondereing, they sound and feel like real rifle loads, not like a .22 rim fire. Maybe like a .223.

JerryO

I've used the speer plinker in both 3006 and 3030, got good accuracy in the '06 and fair accuracy in the 30/30, but my '94 has never been a real tack driver, mainly hampered by a poor rear leaf sight (busted it when I was a kid and replaced it with something lying around, never bothered to change it in the last 25 years). Seems to me the plinkers would group 3/4" at about 50-75 yards. Just don't ask for load data, a few years ago I threw out all my old stone tablets.

For a hunting load without recoil, I would try the Barnes X 125 Gr. loaded to 2700 to 2800 FPS or just simply load it down to 30-30 velocity of 2150 FPS with a 150 gr. Sierra Flat nose bullet or any bullet designed for the 30-30 (so that it will expand at low velocity)..Your ranges are short so it won't make a lot of difference how fast the bullet is going....

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

You may have difficulty getting the 125gr ballistic tip accurate at light loads. I wanted exactly the same as what you want. I could not remove fliers with 125gr ballistic tips until quite hot. This bullet has very little bearing surface - I surmise that to be adequately stabilised it needs quite high velocities. Likewise I got stabilisation fliers when trying to shoot 110gr bullets slow.

I settled on conventional 130gr/135gr bullets eg speers 135gr hot core flat point. 40gr of Vihtavuori N140 gave 2400fps, light recoil and good accuracy/killing on small deer.

[This message has been edited by 1894 (edited 05-14-2001).]

The load you describe should feel like a 7.65x39. The recoil is light should be fine to break him in.
Steve

i saw a speer manual at the store the other day that had reduced loads in it. it gives imr-4198 with 110 gr. bullets at 1927 fps with 26 gr. of powder. the 125 at 1969 with 25 gr. of 4198. max loads with 4198 are around 2200 with both bullets. may try this.all i am looking for is to go bang and not scare the boy.when he gets used to it i may work up to the 125 x.

Hi Eric
I suggest to use the Lapua 100 g HP ( G 477 )
and 38 grains of Vihtavuori 130 or Norma 200 or something of that burning rate.
With that combination I get about 3/4��@100 meters and 3000 f/s
and very low recoil
http://www.lapua.com/components/bullets.htm

Anders �sterberg

settled on 125 balistic tip 40 gr, imr 4064.the boy turned 7 the 29th and i told him he could shoot it on his birthday. only had 20 loaded and when he ran out he was begging for more so i would say it went well. stacked 2 bales of hay and he laid the rifle across and hit 3 jugs with the first 5 shots at 50 yards. i think he is hooked.