I'm looking for some data on reduced loads for the .22-250. Something along the lines of 2500-2700fps with a 45 or 50grn bullet. Basicly .22 Hornet ballistics out of my .22-250. I have some areas close to town that are legal to hunt but alot of people get jumpy when they hear loud gun shots and get on the phone to the cops, it's ruined a couple hunts for me. I thought maybe something with a little less muzzle blast would help out. I'm only shooting 150yrds tops so a full power .22-250 load isn't really needed. I've been told this is the place to come. I did a search and found a little info but keep seeing a thread mentioned about Blue Dot in the .22-250 but I cant find the thread its self. I'm looking to run a 50grn Hornady SXSP at about 2500fps. I think that should do the job well. I have 4 lbs of BlueDot so if anyone can help me out it would be appreciated.

Thanks
Tim

If you PM seafire2, he's got the blue dot load resource you're looking for. I use the blue dot loads in my .223 rem bolt gun. I've been very impressed with their accuracy with low power, lower velocity loads.

If you're gonna run blue dot loads, you have to be damn careful with your powder charges. It would be way too easy to get a double or triple charge of the small charge in that big -250 case.

I hand throw each of my charges into the case, one at a time, and then seat that bullet on that case immediately.

The closest to your desired fps, using Load-from-a-Disk is this recipe:

32.0gr of AA2700, Hornady SPSX 50gr, in a 24" barrel=2884fps.

From a quick look through my manuals, it seems more likely to get a heavier, 55gr bullet, to your 2500-2700 target speed using conventional rifle powders.

However, Speer lists reduced loads using SR4759, 12.0gr (max load) of which will propel a 50gr SP to 1982fps. Wouldn't that do the trick for whatever quarry you're after?

I use their reduced loads and FMJ bullets to hunt wild turkeys...far less meat damage than full power loads, but still anchors them. I never checked the report with a decibel meter.

Mine gives great accuracy with 55gr Ballistic Tips and 31gr of Varget. Normal load is about 36.5gr. I do not have a velocity reading.

From Chuck Hawks Low Recoil Reloads table:

.22-250 Remington - 55 grain Speer SP bullet, 13.0 grains SR 4759 powder, CCI 200 primer, Remington case. COL 2.350". MV 2002 fps in 24" barrel. (Based on the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13.)

The entire table and article can be found at:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm

In my reduced 22-250 loads I always used a wisp of "Kapoc" (Like Dacron) to hold the powder back near the primer, to ensure full ignition.... This was some time ago, I'm not cetain that it's done anymore, but I always got complete burning and nice groups as well as consistant velocity.....

My manuals are in storage, but Speer used to have what they called "rel" or "rel loads" in their manuals.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
If you PM seafire2, he's got the blue dot load resource you're looking for. I use the blue dot loads in my .223 rem bolt gun. I've been very impressed with their accuracy with low power, lower velocity loads. .

For those of you interested in attempting to blow-up yourself and/or your kids - seafire is the guy to get loads from.

For those of you who are not interested in Ka-Booms - stick with the Loads shown in the Manuals.

Best of luck to you all.

and for all of you that have a burning desire to have a single source for an individual that KNOWS virtually everything, please feel free to PM HOT Core...

there isn't a subject he isn't a self taught expert on.. he even knows more than NASA engineers do...

don't believe it, just ask him...

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
For those of you interested in attempting to blow-up yourself and/or your kids - seafire is the guy to get loads from.

Hotcore:

You are becoming annoying.

I agree that this subject is not without risk and has to be thoroughly discussed. However, not on that emotional and personal base.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:
...Hotcore:

You are becoming annoying.....

Hey DUK, Just checked - tough cookies!

I believe the Board still has an "Ignore Feature" which you can choose to use. Or you could look at the left side of the screen and go right on past my posts. You have all kinds of options available to you to prevent the truth from "annoying" you.
-----

For those of you interested in attempting to blow-up yourself and/or your kids - seafire is the guy to get loads from.

For those of you who are not interested in Ka-Booms - stick with the Loads shown in the Manuals.

Best of luck to you all.

You tell'em Yoda!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I believe the Board still has an "Ignore Feature" which you can choose to use.

Are you saying that the "ignore feature" is a substitute for lacking manners?

I've tried some of the reduced BD loads in my 22-250. Loaded down to about 2700 fps. Muzzle blast was reduced and accuracy was as good as the full power loads, but point of impact was shifted down and left about 2.5".

TReX300, I did run across some older data that showed reduced loads for a number of 22-250 bullet weights..... It's Speer data.......

1. 40gr, 9.0-11.0gr, SR-4759, vel. 1641-1979fps
2. 45gr, 9.5-11.5gr, SR-4759, vel. 1656-1984fps
3. 50gr, 10.0-12.5gr, same , vel. 1650-1982fps
4. 55gr, 11.0-13.0gr, same , vel. 1688-2002fps

Hope this helps some -- I used the data to load some 55gr fmj's they worked great on coyotes, 22cal hole in and in some cases that was the only hole, bullet stopped inside the animal... only out to about 100yrds.... I never had one get away or had to shoot put more than one in the animal... use at your own risk

quote:

Do you really think it is better to let seafire Kill someone?
-----

For those of you interested in attempting to blow-up yourself and/or your kids - seafire is the guy to get loads from.

So you are accusing me of trying to kill people?

and then you bring in that I am out to kill kids also?

you really need to get under some pyschiatric supervision....

whether it is me or someone else on this forum you are making those claims about, it really shows that you are off the deep end...

I really wonder how many other forum members would endure such accusations and still try to hold off with restraint.....

We all can't be the Everything Expert you are... but most of us have lived a life that has endured just fine without your input or critique of it....

you really do need a straight jacket and a rubber room....

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
If you PM seafire2, he's got the blue dot load resource you're looking for. I use the blue dot loads in my .223 rem bolt gun. I've been very impressed with their accuracy with low power, lower velocity loads. .

For those of you interested in attempting to blow-up yourself and/or your kids - seafire is the guy to get loads from.

For those of you who are not interested in Ka-Booms - stick with the Loads shown in the Manuals.

Best of luck to you all.

Hot Core,

IF YOU'RE GOING TO QUOTE MY POST, IN YOUR VENDETTA AGAINST SEAFIRE, THEN QUOTE MY ENTIRE POST DAMMIT.

You conveniently left out the part where I warn about measuring your loads and risks of double charges.

Sure it's not personal.

No, really.

We believe you.

Give it a rest already. This has nothing to do with safety at all. You are on a personal vendetta against Seafire for some reason only you know. You're just shrouding yourself in the guise of "safety".

Pure BULLSHIT.

Why do I say this?

There is another thread on this very reloading forum speaking about duplex loading powders "off the chart" for the same cartridge-22-250.

You have remained silent.

Why?

Because you can't SLAM Seafire.

You're not interested in "helping" anyone.

Just spewing your attitude.

Enough already. Let it go. Either give it a rest or just admit that he stole your girlfriend/bike/milk money/whatever.

It's waaayyy to obvious that this is a personal thing for you.

You could also try H4895 reduced loads as directed by Hodgdon. They claim that the load can be reduced to as much as 60% of "standard", yielding velocities in the 1900 - 2200 fps range. Check out their website under the "Youth loads" narative, or refer to a Hodgdon manual for further information. I have used H4895 in this manner for 7x57 and 25-06 loads; they work well. As always YMMV

quote:

OK, I'll admit it - seafire will eventually Kill someone with his ignorance.

For those of you interested in attempting to blow-up yourself and/or your kids - seafire is the guy to get loads from.

Okay guys, you can decide...

some one has had his cheese fall off his cracker, and it isn't me...

H/C you need a straight jacket and a padded room.. you've friggin lost it...

The rest of us have managed to live our entire lives without you personal supervision of it...

you really don't have much faith in the common sense of your fellow forum members do you?

otherwise you would be trying to ram your opinions down their throats like some sort of fanatic...

I really think it boils down that your little self centered ego is pissed that someone's work and input is being asked for by others, and your's isn't....

the best way to deal with guys like you, is to let them rant on with all of their doomesday "chicken little" predictions...

I wonder why guys like you even handload at all..

you are a paranoid dillusional Sucker, I'll give you that...Pompous also...

'Legend in your own mind' kind of guy...

Thank you for the useful replies (and entertainment). I am fully aware of the risks of reloading.....I've been at it for over 25yrs. I have used Blue Dot before in the .223 and had excellent results with it which is why I was looking for a bit of info on it for the .22-250. I had mine own ideas for a load but figured I'd check with others before ventrueing forth......sort of a double check. I saw mention somewhere either in this post or a post linked from this one about using pistol primers in these loads becuase of possible high pressues. Wouldn't that be one of the last thing you want to do because of their weaker construction? I could see that leading to false pressure signs and or a reputured primer.


Thanks again
Tim

quote:

Originally posted by TReX300:
using pistol primers in these loads becuase of possible high pressues. Wouldn't that be one of the last thing you want to do because of their weaker construction? I could see that leading to false pressure signs and or a reputured primer.Thanks again
Tim

You are right and it has caused pierced primers. It might be rare but some rifles will do it consistantly. roger

Trex, I seem to remember the 22-250 load being in the 15 grains area with Blue Dot. I haven't tried it but it stands to reason if 223 loads run 3-4 grains less.

FWIW, I run Blue Dot in my 223s and 17 Rem with great success, through thousands of rounds - and a nearly equal number of dead gophers!

Mark

Hey Redial (and Seafire also-if you have them),

Can you PM me your 17 Rem Blue Dot loads? I just picked up a 17 Rem carbine bbl for my Contender.

Thanks.

Hmm .. if targets and chronographs are any indication (I don't have a strain gauge), then at the reduced pressures and velocities I run with Blue Dot, the pressures are quite consistent.

The difference likely is that I'm several hundred fps short of max speeds in 223 and nearly a thousand in 17 Rem. At these moderate intensities, BD is quite well mannered.

YMMV, of course.

Mark

I've just gotta stick my 2 cents into this and risk getting some flames. First, I don't have nor have ever shot a .22-250. Having written that, I decided to run your info thru my copy of Quickload. I know! QL is only a guide and that's the way I use it.
I assumed a 2600 fps. vel., at least an 80% fill and a 50 gr. Sierra (I think). QL came back with quite a few loads within those parameters. HOWEVER, all of the loads were with the very slow burning powders and some had a fill capacity of over 100%. As I recall, IMR-7828 was one of the powders listed.
I most certainly am not going to post any of the charges/powders that were returned but suffice it to say that Green Dot, Blue Dot, etc. were not on the listing.
Were I in your shoes, I MIGHT try something that QL returned but I rather think I'd call the balliticians at the powder companies first and present them with my dilema. Just had to throw this out though.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey DUK, You obviously missed this question because I feel sure your "manners" would have required that you answer.

quote:

For DUK:
So, if it is Bad Manners to point out seafire's total lack of knowledge about Internal Ballistics and Pressure is going to Ka-Boom someone, I don't get it. Do you really think it is better to let seafire Kill someone?

I did see your question. However, I feel it just does not make any sense to discuss such important reloading issues like how to safely design reduced rifle loads in an agressive manner with rude people.

Please learn how to behave or at least how to write in a more civilized manner, then come back.

I looked at the old thread Hot Core referenced and it seems the load(s) list there are warmer than what I use.

As for the "belted" 204 case, I've had soft Federal 308 brass do that in my Palma (bolt action) rifle on its first firing. One reason I use Lapua brass in that rifle now!

Blue Dot is all I use in 17 Rem to push MOLY 18 and 20 grain bullets to a leisurely 3650 fps. I neck size the brass since my CZ's chamber is anything but tight-necked and the load doesn't generate sufficient pressure to iron the step out of the neck where the sized top part meets the unsized bottom.

The load for both 17 and 223 with MOLY lightweight bullets is 11.5 grains of BD. There's data also on Mr Calhoun's site - another Montana bullet maker!

Cheers

Mark

Well if you're using a pistol primer as a safety valve in a high powered rifle you may be looking for a nose, forehead or cheeck blow back tatoo. The nice thing about small amounts of vaporized metal is that it only penetrates one or two layers of skin. roger

Just because Alliant has not bothered to test Blue Dot loads does not mean they are not suitable for a number of applications.

And just because there is an internet stalker following Seafire around and slamming his every post doesn't mean there's anything wrong with those loads, either.

Seafire's Blue Dot loads have worked extremely well for me and for our oldest son, who can go through ammo much quicker than I seem to be able to load it for him.

The loads I am using obviously have MILD pressures as one particular batch of brass has now been fired 11 times and STILL does not need trimming...and the primer pockets are as snug as when I first loaded them.

If I need full-house loads, then, obviously, I go to the traditional powders for the calibers, such as H335 for the .223 and Varget and Re-15 for the .308.

Excellent post Bobby. I agree.

I agree with Bobby completely.

I don't load Blue Dot to try to get full velocity or full pressure out of the load. I use it to DOWNLOAD the cartridge. That's kind of the POINT to the whole exercise. That is a fact that HC hasn't bothered to let get in the way of his hate crusade.

Guys,

I haven't been on line for a few days.. I got hit by a freight train called the Norwalk Flu Virus.. one of the more nastier ones in existence.. lost 12 lbs in the first 24 hours of it.. to walk to the kitchen to get a drink of water, knocks me enough I sleep for 2 to 3 hours afterwards...

I appreciate the support on here.. I can spend my time arguing with HC, but that seems to be the attention that he likes...

I'd just put on it on ignore, but something about having someone claim your goal in life is to kill kids, just doesn't make you want to take your eye off of them.. who know what ludicrist thing that they will follow up with next...

I think we've all come to the conclusion this is an ego thing for HC.

as far for the original question on the post.. for economy, consistency etc.. I have become real fond of a simple load of 17.5 grains of B/D with a 50 to 55 grain bullet.. this is about 2 grains below what I consider max.. someone with Q/L estimated the pressure in the 40,000 psi range.. What I like about it, is that I only have to resize the brass about every 5 shots, and that is strictly neck size it... the brass expands and then returns right to the diameter it started out as...

doing this on a test batch,I am on 25 reloads on a batch of brass and it is hanging in there just fine.. I am going to anneal it just for grins and giggles.. bascially it lowers the 22.250 to 223 performance standards...

The only two things that is going to hurt anyone using Blue Dot, is either lack of experience/common sense.. or poor loading techniques...and neither are the fault of the powder, regardless what powder it is...

HC states I am clueless on pressure, but I have failed to notice him posting his credentials to be in a position to really flame anyone elses opinions on the subject...

Is he an MIT graduate and leaving us in the dark about that?

The weather here finally allowed me to get out and test some of the 15grn BD loads I did up. I was amazed at how accurate and cocnsitant they shot aswell as how quiet. At 100yrds 5 shot groups ran in .600" 's with the odd group in thr .700" 's. Thanks to my wonderful shooting abilites. They are exactly what I've been looking for.

Thanks for the info and help
Tim

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
I can spend my time arguing with HC, but that seems to be the attention that he likes...

Does it bother the big oak tree if a pig scratches it's a.. on it?

quote:

Originally posted by redial:
Hmm .. if targets and chronographs are any indication (I don't have a strain gauge), then at the reduced pressures and velocities I run with Blue Dot, the pressures are quite consistent.

Ol' Hotcore condemns both strain gauges and chronographs, so you're left with just the targets. And of course a blade micrometer accurate to .0001"

Glad the load worked for you, TRex. If pressures are kept low, Blue Dot loads are usually even more accurate than the full-snort ammo.

The ranges I pop gophers rarely exceed 150 yards (100 on average) and it does you no good to load hotter in terms of wind, accuracy. It doesn't take much horsepower to kill most varmints anyway. Using the 20 grain 17Rem load, I went 47 for 48 on rockchucks last summer with none requiring a second shot - and one clean miss.

I would chrono them, regardless of what others think of bullet speedometers! That way you'll be able to plot your wind drift every 25 yards or so on the range card taped to your stock

Mark

I found that the "ignore" switch works. I finally used it after a number of years.... lol....
Good going TReX300, I found some old data for the 22-250 and I'am going to give it a try again with some 55grain FMJ's I've got laying around....
I got out yesterday with my son, beautiful sunny day, still alot of snow on the ground, roads in the "West Desert are still very muddy, gave that chore to my son.... No coyotes, but a good day....

Blue Dot has worked for many people as a reduced load/recoil load very well, through thousands of rounds. However, when using Blue Dot in this way there is a very real possibility of a double or even triple charged load, which could cause a catastrophic failure of the ammo and the gun. May I offer these suggestions to those who use Blue Dot for reduced recoil loads in rifles:

1. Establish a routine for charging your loads that will reduce the possibility of a double charge. I move my funnel to the next case immediately after charging a case. The funnel is always on an un-charged case.

2. Use a flashlight to visually examine all the cases in your block to see if the charges appear to all be the same. If one appears to be even slightly more charged, dump it and recharge it.

3. Weigh the finished ammo. Any cartridge that weighs more (especially the weight of a charge more), pull the bullet and dump the charge.

My nickel's worth.

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:
Does it bother the big oak tree if a pig scratches it's a.. on it?

I think there is a lot said here. May just have to adopt that philosophy. roger

It did help me, both in private life and in the work place...

Seafire was kind enough to mail me BD data for 243, 223 and 22-250.
I found his data to be spot on.
Never wanted to push the loadings near the top-that's why I got the Blue Dot loadings in the first place- and they were all quite accurate, sure, different POI but good groupings for the most part.
Not a noobie to reloading- have been at it over 50 years but always willing to consider another reasonable route to achieve what I am searching for,within reason.
Being a big boy, I always assume responsibility for my actions and don't go looking to blame others if I do something foolish.I think most of us here understand the risks of a double charge.
Use common sense and consistent reloading practices and you should be all right.

Had to add my 2 cents and respects to Seafire.

Gary

I aapreciate all the suppport I have gotten from my fellow forum members here...

I do wish that this thread will just close...

I will use this as an opportunity to make a public statement:

This past week I have been smacked with some severe, and out of the blue, medical issues... over the next week or two we will know how severe or not...

however that may limit or eliminate my time of AR for the mext 6 months or more.. my health and well being is out of my hands and in the hands of others right now..

don't anyone fret, as I have always lived by a philosophy: we all have a beginning and we all have an end, we have no control over any of it, except what is in between those two points.... so instead of prayers for my current wellbeing, instead take that time and effort and appreicate all around you that God has blessed you with.. as he has blessed me with...

later guys...

john chr
seafire