I have a problem that I have never had happen before. I've been neck sizing all my brass with no problems but got a bunch of brass from someone else so I bought a new REM 7mm RCBS FULL length die to reload for me and a cousin. BUT....I can't chamber any of the the rounds in his gun or mine even after a full resize. I've adjusted dies to touch the shell holder, tried several times, done everything I know to do .Both of our guns are Weathrby Vanguard Deluxe models. Is it the dies or me? I'm not a novist at reloading but I dont know everything. I'd appreciate some help.

I'm Puzzled

I Am Mello

Adjust the die down a little farther to where you can feel it cam over hard. Some presses will spring enough that it won't full resize the case to fit if your chamber is tight.

I had this same thing happen with my 7mm mag and it took me three years to figure out what was happening, I'm betting yours is the same problem as mine.

The problem is in the adjustment of the seating die. The standard RCBS seating die has a bullet crimping feature. If you have the bullet seating die adjusted to touch the shell holder then when you stroke the press and run the cartridge all the way into the die it will try to crimp the bullet into place. That's fine if you have a bullet with a cannelure and seating depth is adjusted so that the cannelure is located at the top of the case, but if you don't have a cannelure or the case mouth/cannelure doesn't coincide then the die is going to attempt to crimp anyway. It can't crimp if it doesn't have a cannelure so what happens is the shoulder of the case buckles slightly, usually not enough to spot with the naked eye but it can be felt if you run your fingernail over the case, feel in the shoulder area and you'll feel it. That buckle is enough to expand the shoulder of the case and keep it from chambering.

The solution is to adjust your seating die so that it's not touching the shellholder, back it off a couple of turns so it's got a good gap between it and the shellholder when the ram is at the top of it's stroke. I put a washer or a dime on top of the shellholder then adjust the die down until it touches, then lock it into place. Adjust your seating depth then with the stem on top of the die.

I'm 99% positive that this is your problem. It vexed me for years until I finally figured it out. Whoever designed that useless crimping feature into seating dies should be shot.

Can you at least chamber the cases that come out from the FL die?

Since these were fired in another rifle you may need what is called Small Base Sizing
Die.
http://www.huntingtons.com/dies_smallbase.html

Will the small base die resize further down the cartrige to the belt area? Does it size the same area as the Larry Willis collet die does? What does the small base die do to the brass?
Thanks,
Jim

In addition to the other suggestions, make sure the brass doesn't need trimming.

Welcome to AR! You will find that there are MORE guys posting here that really know what they're talking about than any other shooting/reloading forum on the web!

I suggest that you lube up a case, and "smoke" the neck and shoulder area with the soot from a match or candle to see if, when the die is screwed into the press to where the shellholder touches the sizing die at the top of the stroke, the shoulder of the die chamber in fact touches the shoulder of the case. If it does, then remove the case from the die, smoke it again all along the side, and try to chamber it in your rifle. If it hangs up somewhere, the spot where it is contacting the chamber and hanging up will rub off the soot deposit, and you will know what portion of the case needs further reduction in size to fit your chamber. This test will show you if a small-base die will help. If OTOH, it is a bulge in front of the belt that is causing the problem, there is a sp[edial die available that will reduce this bulge to factory specs, but the damn thing costs around $80.00, and you can buy quite a lot of new brass for $80.00.

The resizing die might not be pushing the shoulder back enough even when it is adjusted properly. I have a 7mm-08 die set that is borderline. When cases get work hardened a bit I need to slip a feeler gauge into the shellholder under the case to push the shoulder back a little more to get them to chamber.

As stated above, the first thing is to resize and then chamber an empty case. If is chambers, then the problem is with the bullet seating process. If it does not, then the problem is with the case.
Peter.

http://www.larrywillis.com/

This is the sizing die that El Deguello referred to in his post

Well thanks to all of you guys I have learned something new. I think I should have given one more bit of info on my original post.

I did a full resize on the brass and tried placing them in the gun before they were primed, charged, and placing a bullet in the casing, the problem was with the CASE ONLY not chambering.

I hope I can take the liberty to share what I learned from Siera's web site.

Did you know if you mix brands between dies and shell holders it can cause this problem? Well guess what... IT DOES !! I had a RCBS die with a Lyman shell holder. I got a RCBS shell holder and guess what.... it made the round chamber! It was sticky but it chambered!

Marc.. posted he had a simular problem with a 7mm-08 that was borderline on tolerance. Marc.. I put a shim between the base of the case and the shellholder and ZHAZAMMM it worked like a dream !! BTW Marc..thanks for that tip !!!

I think I will use the shim through hunting season and when the season is over I will send the dies to RCBS with 5 spent rounds and let them "adjust "the dies to my gun. They say they will do it at NO CHARGE as long as it is within certain tolerances.

El Deguello, I am wondering if a small base die is basically the same idea as having RCBS work my existing dies into my guns tolerances? I THINK all they will do is shave the base of the die to let the shell go deeper into the die.



Thanks for all the info guys.

I will take the liberty to post the link from Sierra. It has several causes for a full resized rounds not chambering.
http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=techserv...ing&volume=4&issue=2

Hey guys, maybe I am missing something here, but dont the directions tell you to run the shell holder up to the die and then lower the ram and turn the die down a 1/8 or 1/4 turn so it "over cams"? If I ever have chambering problems it is a result of not turning the die down far enough. Or like I said, "Am I missing somehing"?

quote:

Originally posted by Denny:
"Am I missing somehing"?

Sorry, but that term annoys me. I guess no one knows everything, but this is the place to be informed, though I get ignored often enough.

I suppose one could go through life with out having a FLResising problem, and others not.

Here on AR I've read many a poster haveing said problems and some advise fileing down the shell holder a bit. As above many advise a small base die.

Half the time I can't even figure out the question let alone the answer, and in this case I'm wondering where you can get a set of dies WITHOUT a FLS die? Usually you get the FLS die and have to buy the neck one seperate.

Anyway, with all these barrel makers making tight chambers, people buying aftermarket target quality barrels etc. it's not supprising that someones oversize brass doesn't get FLS'd enough to fit some chambers.

I've had to Lube up well, and FLS twice (with a 180 deg turn for luck) just to get a very tight fit. Strangly, the case came loose AFTER a fireing.

Another annoyance I have is all this talk about bumping sholders back. So I don't have to FLS a case with a belt and no neck? Don't think so. So why single out just one part of the FLS process. . . Anyone???

But sure Denny mate, reading the directions is a good last resort.

PS. I think my gunsmith told me to file down the base of the die, not the shellholder, but in one ear, out the other.

Denny, I thought the same thing... and for most of the time this is true. BUT with two of my Rem 7mm Mag guns there was a tolerance problem. As I posted sometimes mixing the brand of shellholders will make a difference. (ie. haveing an RCBS die and using a Lyman shellholder) It DID cause me troubles . Also some guns just have different tolerances. I looked on the RCBS web site and they did say the following was ONE of a few problems:

(#3. If the cases don't chamber, please return the sizer die along with the five fired cases. The fired cases will give us your chamber dimensions and if the chamber is in standard factory tolerance, we'll make the necessary adjustment in the die for you without cost. If, upon our inspection the chamber is out of standard specification, we will notify you of the cost of producing a die to those specifications.)

http://www.rcbs.com/questions/dies_questions.aspx

One thing that could happen: If the neck expander lacks enough lube the case/ neck junction can be pulled forward a scosh.
Try Imperial die wax on a Q-tip and lube the inside of the neck at the shoulder junction.
Hard to see, easy to fix. Tightening the sizing die down may spring the press but it wont shorten the case. The case/ die is butted against the shell holder and wont see the springing.
Good Luck!

The small base sizer will solve all your problems. I had the same problem with my 7mag and was putting a shim in the shell holder also.

The small base sizer will take the brass back to factory specs and will chamber without any problems.

FL sizing by instructions to screw the die down until it touches the shell holder and go another xx turn is easy to explain to mechanical klutzes so they can almost always get ammo that will chamber but it's NOT the "best way" to set an FL die. The admoniton to go just past touching is because all presses have a bit of spring in the frame, linkages and lever, but it varies a little from press to press so it's not ALWAYS a cure. Blindly following that rule FREQUENTLY creates a small amount of excess headspace.

ALL dies AND shellholders have SAMMI tolerances they must fall within, nothing has an absolute measurement, so each dimension has an acceptable range of variation.

ALL shell holders are supposed to be an eight of an inch deep; .125" max and something like minus .003 for a minimum. Dies have simular tolerances. A normal but long die and a maximum depth shell holder adds to provide minimum sizing from head to shoulder, so it really isn't a brand mix thing, per se, at all. It's probably just the normal manufacturing tolerances adding in the wrong way that got you, not mixed brands! You could have had the same results with another Lyman SH or the RCBS SH might have been much the same as your Lyman and worked the same too.

What RCBS will likely do is cut a few thousants off the bottom of your die to allow the case to go a tad deeper. Or you could do it yourself but a file won't cut either the die body or SH, they are hardened. You can grind either one though.

Normal head space tolerance for most cartridges is a range of about .006". Screwing down a 7/8 x 14 die by 1/8th turns changes the case by about .009" in length so it's obvious that proper adjustment requires much finer control than that. Limit your FL die changes to no more than 1/16th turns per test. And it's ideal to use something like the RCBS Precision Case Mic to measure how much you are actually changing a case as you adjust your FL sizer.

Not all loading die sets are made with an FL die and a seater, some are available with Neck Sizers only.

quote:

Did you know if you mix brands between dies and shell holders it can cause this problem? Well guess what... IT DOES !! I had a RCBS die with a Lyman shell holder. I got a RCBS shell holder and guess what.... it made the round chamber! It was sticky but it chambered!

On a couple die/shellholder sets, I've had to file a couple of thousandths of an inch off the top face of the shellholder so the ram would push the case into the sizing die a little further. I don't know just HOW RCBS "adjusts" the die/shellholder to make the case go into the die a little further. Whether they shave a little off the bottom of the die, or off the top face of the shellholder. I have found that the shellholders are generally a lot softer (and cost less!!) than a sizing die, so I always alter the shellholder!

Most of the time, I only "partially resize" the cases if they were fired in my rifle. I set the die in the press just far enough to resize about "one caliber" of the case neck back from
the mouth-.30" for a .30 cal., etc. As long as they chamber, I avoiud FL resizing as much as possible. The less you work your brass, the longer it will last!
In my experience, I have NEVER HAD to use a "small-base die" for ANYTHING, not even semi-autos. But I have never owned or loaded ammo for a rifle with a tight chamber, either.

I have heard of RCBS producing out-of-spec dies. You should not be having trouble sizing for a factory chamber. Send the die and cases to RCBS and let them sort the thing out. Any variance between brand of shellholders should not be significant for what you are doing.

I can't say I've never encountered reloading problems . After 40 years of loading bound to have a glitch or two . This has ALWAYS worked for me . I measure either a factory shell complete or one that I know ( by trying it ) fits in my chamber . I neck size or FL resize I check first the fit in my chamber . No go ?, I remove it measure it or use a marker on shoulder or neck seldom if ever on the body .Then see where the problem is , ADJUST the DIE accordingly .

To the BEST of my knowledge I've never had an " Out of Tolerance Die ". I'm not saying it's not possible I've never experienced it !.

I load for over 30 different calibers !!!!.

NOW I use different DIES !. Now only Dillon presses ( I've used them all at one time or another ) I stuck with Dillon . Shell plate matches the caliber , 1:14 threaded DIES ANYBODYS works EVERY TIME .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Hummmm...All the info is now getting me to wondering what I was doing wrong! I adusted the die according to instructions, then I backed off about a full round, then adusted down in 1/16 intervals untill it cammed over hard. Still would not chamber.

Keep in mind I was using cases that were NOT shot in my gun. They were shot in someone elses gun. That's the reason I was FULL resizing. I usually try to use MY brass fired in MY gun and NECK size them and have no problem. This was the first time I ran into a problem FULL resizing.

Then I read what Sierra said about mixing shell holders and went and bought an RCBS shellholder to match brands of my dies and the round chamered. It was sticky but it chambered.

Then I followed Marc's tip about the shim in the shellholder under the case and IT WORKS FINE. Thats all I know... It worked


In any event.... thanks to some tips I learned here I am up and running just fine or should I say I'm up and "loading" just fine.

Thanks to everyone who gave me your input. With out it I would still be looking like this >>>