I am a newbie to this forum, have been reading for a while, my question is where do you begin?

Reloading metallic cartridges is new to me, but how do you develop a load? There seems to be so many variables, bullet type, weight, powder, bullet seating depth, brand of primers etc.
Are there books that explain this process or is it just a seat of the pants thing that comes from expeirence? I'm talking about published loadings, finding the one that gives the best groups. Thanks, Steve

The best place to start is a manual or two. The ABCs of Reloading is another good read.
Once you have a understanding of the process you`ll find the books have notations on what the labs found to work well in the cartridge you are interested in. They may not always be the best choice, but they are usually a good start. This and other forums are good places to get tips and help if things don`t seem right. Read up, ask a few questions and you`ll be on your way.

Here are some methodologies:

http://wssmzone.com/main/default.aspx?c=reloading&c2=re...elopment&n=reloading

Thanks for the info,Joe, Flying Ace.
Methodology was the term I was looking for.

trumpet

Yes there are a lot of variables. But most of the companies that make loading manuals have been through all of them. I never felt much like re-inventing the wheel. Sierra and Nosler both have a most accurate load for each caliber. I use them and over the years time and time again they are really close. The powder they say is best usually is. I play with the grains and the seating depth a little and it dials my gun right in.

Most importantly, when changing loads, only change one variable at a time or you won't know which change caused the load to shoot better (or worse). Variables include primers, powder charge weight, bullet, brass, seating depth, neck sizing vs full-length or partial neck-sizing, etc. That's why it is most important to keep good written records.

quote:

Originally posted by trumpet:
...where do you begin?...

Hey Steve, This might help you get an idea or two.
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Over the years I've seen a lot of different Load Development Methods used by reloaders.

Some simply make Random Selections from a Load Manual with no consideration given to Developing the Load from below. The Loads may do fine, but have the potential to either be Under Loaded – the rifle will not be able to take full advantage of the Cartridge, or when Over Loaded – the rifle will be subjected to Pressures which creates Cumulative Metal Fatigue. And of course, the majority of those Random Picked Loads will fall somewhere in between the two extremes.

Some reloaders go to elaborate lengths in an attempt to find the best load, but waste a lot of time, effort and components. They may shoot 5, 7 or 10 shot groups with a specific amount of Powder and may have 5-10 different Loads of that same Powder to Test. Testing only one Powder may take 1-5 days of shooting if they are allowing their rifle to cool properly between groups. Here again, they may or may not actually end up with the best possible Load for their specific rifle.

Frustration can set in and the reloader just accepts a Load that shoots OK rather than creating the best load possible for that specific rifle.

It is important to consider what is actually responsible for the Accuracy of the Final Load.

Every rifle is unique in that there are minor variations in each component's material, manufacturing operations used during fabrication and assembly, attached sighting devices and shooter technique. Each has an influence on the Harmonic created when a cartridge is fired. When a person wants the best Accuracy possible, the trick is to use a Load Development Method which allows the reloader to quickly and accurately determine where the best Harmonics are for a specific set of components.

Harmonics are vibrations created in the firearm when a cartridge is fired due to multiple stresses placed on the barrel and action. It is helpful to think of the muzzle moving in an elongated Figure 8 during firing, that can be leaning to the right or the left. Our goal is to Develop the Load so the Bullet leaves the muzzle when the Harmonic oscillation is either at the Apogee or Perigee, when the muzzle has nearly stopped moving. That is because the muzzle movement slows as it approaches an end, nearly stops, changes direction, and then begins speeding up again. At the cross-over mid-point of the Figure 8, the muzzle speed is the greatest. Loads which cause the Bullets to exit the barrel during the highest amount of muzzle movement will create a larger group.

Barrel Harmonics can be controlled by a structured Load Development Method which allows the reloader to determine where the Harmonic Convergence, Clusters or Nodes are located. Then the Final Load is Fine Tuned by adjusting the Seating Depth.

There are additional Accuracy Tricks a person can use such as Fully Prepped Cases, match Grade Bullets, Partial - Full Length Resizing(P-FLR) and Seating Into-the-Lands. Each of which helps with the potential to Develop a consistently Accurate Load for a specific rifle. (Some of the Tricks are excellent for Target shooting, but are best avoided for Hunting Loads.)

Though the same Load might shoot OK in a different rifle, the user is limiting the Accuracy Potential of the second rifle due to slight variations in it’s unique Harmonics. And a Load which is SAFE in one rifle may not be SAFE in another rifle - always develop a Load from below for each unique rifle.

The never improved upon, time tested Creighton Audette Method allows a reloader to locate the points of Harmonic Convergence with the least amount of components and time expended. The simplicity of Mr. Audette’s Method makes it usable by even novice reloaders and provides them the ability to achieve the best possible accuracy for their components with a specific rifle.

The Creighton Audette Method(aka Ladder Method)

1.After selecting specific components for Testing, reload a series of individual Cases with an incremental increase in Powder.
2.Fire each individual Load onto a single Target at 300 yards.
3.Note the specific Point of Impact for each test cartridge.
4.Look at the Targets to determine where there are shot clusters and note the specific amounts of Powder. These are the points of Harmonic Convergence.
5.Reshoot Loads Developed around the Clusters to verify the Final Load.

That is all there is to it. Simple and uses the minimum amount of components possible to find the best possible accuracy for them in a specific rifle.

Here are some additional tips to help get a person started:

1.Always watch for the normal Pressure Indicators as the Test Loads are being fired. Just because a Load is shown as SAFE or below MAX in a Manual(s), does not necessarily mean that applies to ALL RIFLES chambered for that Cartridge.

2.When selecting the amount of variation in the Powder, use 0.2gr in small cases(223Rem, etc.), 0.3gr in medium cases(308Win), 0.4gr in large cases(30-06), and 0.5gr in magnum cases(300WinMag). Do not start below or go above Loads shown in 2-3 Manuals.

3.There may be two points of Harmonic Convergence on a single Target. Focus on the group using the most Powder for the best on-game performance.

4.Reload a series of three 3-shot groups to Verify the point of Harmonic Convergence. Shoot them on individual Targets and then stack the targets and look at them with a strong light behind them to see if they are remaining in the same spot.

Example: You look at a Target and notice Test Loads with 40.0gr, 40.3gr, 40.6gr, 40.9gr and 41.2gr have progressively gotten closer together and then began widening again. They seem to Cluster around the 40.6gr load. So, you load three Test Loads at 40.3gr, three at 40.6gr and three at 40.9gr and shoot them into individual Targets.

5.Shooting at Dawn and Dusk typically provide some of the calmest wind periods.

6.Shoot quickly enough that there is less change in the environmental conditions, without overheating the barrel.

7.If possible, use a person to Spot the Points of Impact with a large Spotting Scope. It is also possible to use a second person Down Range to mark the Points of Impact, but can be dangerous if done in a casual manner.

8.For short range firearms(30-30, 35Rem, 44Mag), the Targets should be shot at 100yds. For other cartridges, shooting at 300yds allows the Clustering to be more visible than when shot at 200yds. But, if 300yds is not available, 200yds can work.

9. Once a Load is developed around a Harmonic Cluster, it is possible to further Fine Tune the Load by Testing various Seating Depths.

10.Make Targets with a 4"-6" Black Square and shoot at a corner.

11.Take a few Spotter Rounds to get you onto the 300yd Target to begin with so the actual Test Loads are not wasted.

12.Focus on the Target so your concentration is at a peak. If you do flinch on a shot, be sure to note it on your Load Data Sheet.

13.Benchmark the rifles best possible accuracy to start with, using Match Grade bullets Seated to just Kiss-the-Lands or 0.005"-0.010" Into-the-Lands.

14.Once you know the accuracy potential of the rifle, begin Load Development with the Hunting Grade bullet you intend to use.

15.Take cleaning equipment with you to the range and use it. Some bullets foul a barrel much worse than others and trying to Develop a Load with a lot of copper in it does not represent the barrel condition you will be hunting with. So, clean it at the range as appropriate.
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Use what you want and trash the rest.

Hotcore: Good tips! I assume that in step 2 you are shooting 3 shot groups?

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
Hotcore: Good tips! I assume that in step 2 you are shooting 3 shot groups?

Hey Westernmassman, If you are refering to this #2:

2.Fire each individual Load onto a single Target at 300 yards.

Actually those are "single shots" at each Load level. The reason you do not want more is because it will be difficult to locate the Harmonic Clusters with 3-times the number of bullets on that one target.

There is a fellow who advocates doing just as you suggest, but using separate Targets for each Load Level by the name of Dan Newberry(aka Rookie green as I know him). Some folks seem to like his method(?), but it uses 3-times the components that Mr. Audette's Method does to get started and since you are on separate Targets, finding the actual Harmonic Clustering is a bit more difficult.

Rookie green also advocates shooting all the Loads in a "Round Robin" manner which means the environmental conditions have more time to change. And at 300yds, that can skew the data.

At one time Rookie green also said there was no need to shoot the groups beyond 100yds, but he may have changed that tune. He called it the Optimum Charge Weight method(?) or OCW and some folks do use it.

His biggest claim to fame was telling people to just use XX.Xgr of (yyyyy) Powder with a specific weight of bullet(any brand) and it would be the absolutely MOST ACCURATE LOAD with that cartridge in ANY rifle. Of course, since people were not encouraged to "Develop the Load from below", he was eventually laughed off this Board because of the SAFETY issue.

He was back just a month or so ago for one post to hammer on me for being critical about his plagerized OCW method. This thread might bring him back again. You just never know.
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quote:

4.Reload a series of three 3-shot groups to Verify the point of Harmonic Convergence.

Once I've shot the Audette Method with single shots, I do go back and recommend using 3-shot groups to make sure it was actually a Harmonic that was found. This could also be done with 5 or more shots, but I've just not found that necessary.
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Lots of ways to Develop Loads, but Mr. Audette's Method gets you where you want to be with the least amount of time, effort and components. Then once you find the Best Load, Range Time can be best spent shooting from various positions.

Best of luck to all you folks.

excellent info from hot core. if you are only dinking around with one rifle load development isn't a real big deal. but as i accrued more rifles i found out it became a big deal.

unfotunately i never found out about the ladder method early in my reloading career. i could have saved countlees hours and tons of components if i had. follow hot cores advice. it is good medicine.

Save lots of components and don't get to shoot as much! Actually, would help with the frustration levels, but I don't have a 300-yd range (200 is max). Would that work?

I was always under the impression that a cluster involved more than one of something. Just a little lost here...

Hey Stinger, Thank you for the kind words.

There a lot of folks on this site that use Mr. Audette's Method. When you think of the Method, please give Mr. Audette the credit and share it with anyone you think it will benefit. He is the one that originally got the wording so simple that anyone can understand what is going on and thus deserves the credit.

quote:

Originally posted by dustoffer:
Save lots of components and don't get to shoot as much! Actually, would help with the frustration levels, but I don't have a 300-yd range (200 is max). Would that work?

Hey Dustoffer, Well...., a reluctant - yes, it will. The closer you are to the Target, the more difficult it is to see the Harmonic Clusters forming and then reopening. But, you should be able to see the Clusters at 200yds. You'll just have to try it to see what I'm talking about.

I should clarify that it also depends on the particular Cartridge your rifle is chambered for. If you are talking about a 30-30 or 35Rem, then there is really no need to try and shoot them at 200yds or beyond.

If you are talking about a Cartridge with a Velocity above say 2700fps, then the farther out the Target is, the wider the dispersion of shots will be, and the easier it is to see the Harmonic Clusters.

After you do it a time or two, it will make a lot of sense.

quote:

Originally posted by gixxer:
I was always under the impression that a cluster involved more than one of something.

Hey Gixxer, me too.

You take one Target and hang it out at 300yds or 200yds if 300yds isn't available.

Then you have a Series of Test Loads on the Bench ready to go. Let's say you are shooting a 308Win in this example and you are using 150gr MatchKings that are Seated to just Kiss-the-Lands, a BenchRest Primer and your Powder of choice is IMR-4064.

The 1st Test Cartridge has 43.0gr of Powder in it and after getting in a good solid position you shoot it at the Target. You look through a good high power Spotting Scope and mark on a Target next to you where that "1st" shot hit.

The 2nd Test Cartridge has 43.3gr of Powder in it and after getting in a good solid position you shoot it at the "same" Target. You look through a good high power Spotting Scope and mark on a Target next to you where that "2nd" shot hit.

The 3rd Test Cartridge has 43.6gr of Powder in it and after getting in a good solid position you shoot it at the "same" Target. You look through a good high power Spotting Scope and mark on a Target next to you where that "3rd" shot hit.

And so forth until you reach 45.0gr or see Pressure Indicators - which ever comes first - and STOP. When you get through, some of the Test Loads will show holes in the Target "closer together" than the other shots and those are the Harmonic Clusters. That indicates those paticular Loads had the Bullets exiting the muzzle when it was at an Apogee or Perigee.(See above in my first post.)

Did that help you?

Hotcore: Thanks, now I understand. My wife says I have a problem visualizing!

I get it HC. But is there that much of a dramatic difference like the target will have a nice 5 shot group and the rest of it will look like buckshot from a sawed off shotty?

Hey Westernmassman, You are welcome. It seems we all have trouble visualizing some things, but Mr. Audette's Method becomes clear as you use it.

quote:

Originally posted by gixxer:
I get it HC. But is there that much of a dramatic difference like the target will have a nice 5 shot group and the rest of it will look like buckshot from a sawed off shotty?

Hey Gixxer, Good for you.

I'll give you an Example that should be easy for everyone to visualize, or put it on a sheet of paper and look at it. (Just go straight up with them for now.)

Think of a sheet of grid paper with 1" spaces on it and marked; -3", -2", -1", 0", 1", 2", 3", etc. Also visualize the very first shot hitting the "Zero Line".(Mark it - 1st shot.) Mark each shot as you go so you know which shot is which.

The second shot hits at 2".(Marked 2nd.)

The third shot hits at 3.5".(Continue marking the shot sequence.)

The forth shot hits at 4.25".

The fifth shot hits at 4.5".

The sixth shot hits at 4.4".

The seventh shot hits at 5.25".

The eight shot hits at 7.75".

And so forth.

As you look at the Target you see a Harmonic Cluster forming near 4.35"(near shots 4, 5 and 6).

Once you see where the Cluster is forming, you go back and shoot a series of Test Loads made with those Powder levels. I use 3-shot groups at each Load Level on separate Targets, but you should use whatever you want.

After the reshoot I stack the Targets with a strong light behind them and look to see which of the Groups tend to remain in the same relative spot. Then select the Final Load from the "estimated Load" closest to the middle of the groups.

Maybe that Load ends up being 44.2gr of Powder with that specific bullet.

Finally, Fine Tune the 44.2gr Load by adjusting the Seating Depth and reshooting.

In reality, the string of shots can go in any direction from the First Shot. Normally, they move "up and left" or "up and right". But they can move "down and left" or "down and right". The direction of movement depends on the particular Cartridge and Bullet being used and by the luck-of-the-draw, where you just happen to start your Loads.

That is why I mentioned having a set of Spotter Loads made to get you on the Target in the beginning and then go to the Test Loads on a clean Target.

For example, if your first Test Load is the 43.0gr of Powder, then you might want to load an additional 5-6 at that level just to get your scope adjusted for center Target at 300yds.
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quote:

...the rest of it will look like buckshot from a sawed off shotty?

Now that would be a very BAD sign. And in fact, it could happen. Sometimes a particular rifle just doesn't like a specific Powder or a specific Bullet Weight. And you could see a Pattern instead of Groups. That will let you know quickly that there is no use trying to make that Powder and Bullet work together.

Patterns instead of Groups can also happen with a Powder and Bullet the rifle actually likes if for some reason your concentration is not focused on what you are doing. Could be a rifle with a Brake on it next to you, kids at the Range and you don't know how well they stay put, too much caffine, not enough sleep, etc.

But fortunately for us, most of the time Mr. Audette's Method works, and works well.
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Anyone can still use the old Randomly Picked Load and might do right well with it, lots of folks do. Mr. Audettet's method just lets you know for sure the Final Load is on a Harmonic Cluster. That means it will "normally" be more consistently accurate than a Randomly Picked Load.

Best of luck to you.

Sounds like I need to give this a try when my bullets get here. Especially shooting the big ones, saving powder and bullets is cool.

What if you are limited to 100 yards?

Well then all your holes will be closer togeather. May not matter if there is a "spread", but if you chop the target into one big bullet hole. . . then it's hard to see the pattern.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
What if you are limited to 100 yards?

Hey jetdrvr, JAL is correct, it "can be" more difficult to locate the Harmonic.

Going back to RookieGreen's concept, you could hang more than one Target, shoot one shot in each one and then stack 2-4 with a strong light behind them(big watt bulb or the Sun is right bright on occasion ) and locate the Harmonic Clusters. Here the problem is that you are changing your Shooting Position for each shot and that has the potential to skew the Point-of-Impact by itself.
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Anything I've ever done slightly different than Mr. Audette's Method just degrades the results, or lengthens the process. The only exception to that is the Short Range Cartridges.

There are some Cartridges that do need to be shot closer than 300yds. Cartridges like the 30-30, 35Rem, 444Mar, 45-70, 458Win, and all the Revolver/Pistol cartridges, whether they are in rifles or handguns.

Best of luck to you.

Heres a more visual example:
Circles represent bullet holes

Every load on here would be a different charge of powder (or a single shot).

Where the different loads start to form clusters or groups is where the barrel harmonics are.

Loads: 1,5,9,3,7, & 12 would be loads that will be more accurate. Choose the one of the six good loads that is closer to the velocity you want and fine tune it more by changing seating depth of the bullet.

The clusters may consist of 2 holes or five holes, and the shots may run diagnal, or all over the place. the key is there will be 2 points on the taget that the shots start to cluster and those are your accuracy points

I am going to try the Audette Ladder Method wi my .300WM. After the first series (at 300 yds), when reshooting the clusters in three shot groups to verify, do you repeat at 300 yds, or can you drop down to 200 yds? Or, 100 yds? Seems like shorter distance would introduce an inconsistency, which may or not be significant.

I have access to 200 yd range @ my local gun club- but, for 300 yd range I have a 1 1/2 hr drive.