**3/6/06 update - one last question...
I had planned on using new Winchester brass for my handloading. But, I can get a bunch of once fired 30-30 for about 1/3 of the price. The only thing is it's mixed brass. For a gun like this, how much does it matter? For my bolt guns, I use WW for 223 and Lapua for 308 only, but is it as important for this type of reloading?
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I will be reloading 30-30 from a new Marlin 336 with lead bullets. I plan on driving them under 1600 fps per the Lyman manual. I wanted to load them with Unique and/or Blue Dot as it's some pretty cheap shooting! I will be buying the cast bullets, however. I've never loaded cast bullets for rifle, so what is the best size to get? I assume .309, but I see Meister also sells the exact same bullet in .308. My .45ACp bullets were .452, which is .001 over groove, so I assume I should do the same here? Or is cast bullets in a rifle a different animal? Is Meister the way to go here, or are there better companies? The only Meister I see in the Midway catalog is 165 gr.

Also, which dies would you recommend? I've used Redding, RCBS, Dillon and Lee, and like the 1st 2 best. But...and this may be a stupid question - can I neck size for a lever gun? Would I even want to? Is the micrometer seater worth it for something like this? I know this won't shoot MOA probably, but I am kind of picky about accuracy. This will mostly be for shooting paper and cans under 150 yards, and the occasional racoon that may wonder through my place.

Any help is appreciated.

I use RCBS std dies for my 30-30. I would HIGHLY recommend not to neck size with this ctg.

I don't think you'll see a difference between the .308 and .309 diameter bullets either in pressure or in performance.
I used to shoot cast bullets and wound up installing gas checks on them and it was very helpful in reducing lead fouling in the rifling. I think you can drive the bullet a bit faster with a gascheck as well.

Any dies will work for you and cheap is good. The micrometer setting seating dies are a joke in my mind. You can do as well with a threaded stem.

I have Lee Pacesetter dies, but you will find that most reloaders will recommend RCBS. They do what I ask them to do and that is it. I agree with 30378 on not neck sizing.

the lyman "M" die is designed to expand the neck for cast bullets, making them easier to seat.

I use the RCBS dies, actually the Cowboy Action 30.30 dies are better... I have both...the cowboy action dies are the best for lead bullets... then I crimp with a Lee 30.30 crimping die.....

While I am known as MR. Blue Dot on this website... based on all of the work I have done with it... I have to concede, that for the best accuracy... blue Dot is not the answer....

I have seen best performance in my 30.30s from Unique... and SR 4759....( with Cast bullets)

Unique, with an MV of under 1200 fps, really tightened up the accuracy on an old Winchester that I have that has not been very accurate since day one ( my dad bought it new in June 1966)....

SR 4759 has been the most accurate powder across the board with the 30.30....

Original black powder loads were only about 1200 fps I gather in the 30.30.....they also have zero to little recoil at all at that MV....

Good luck...

cheers
seafire

Thanks for all the advice. I kind of figured I'd get the RCBS from the get to. They don't give them away thats for sure! Looks like I can't use them for jacketed either...

Are they really that much better? I have no problems paying extra, but want to make sure its worth it. On the other hand, I hate buying dies, then having to sell them to get an upgrade.

seafire,
Yes, I've read all the posts about using Blue Dot. Nice work! Since I have a pound of it, I will use it, but will probably end up using mostly Unique after.

quote:

I will be buying the cast bullets, however. I've never loaded cast bullets for rifle, so what is the best size to get? I assume .309, but I see Meister also sells the exact same bullet in .308.

Test a sample of bullets sized .308", .309", and .310". I've found that the .310" sized bullets NORMALLY give the best accuracy in the .308 bore cartridges.

The Two-Step Neck-Expanding (M) Die See Lyman web site.

Improves accuracy of cast and jacketed bullet reloads. Doesn’t stretch cases as does standard expander button. Extends case life.

Many reloaders consider Lyman’s Neck Expanding (M) Die a valuable tool for improving the accuracy of their reloads. The die’s expander plug has two steps. (See illustration)



1) The first step expands the inside of the case neck to just under bullet diameter for precise case neck tension in the finished reload. (See Illus. A.)

2) The second step expands the case mouth to bullet diameter or slightly over. This allows the jacketed or cast bullet to be started perfectly centered in the case mouth and properly aligned with the axis of the case neck. (See Illus. B.)

NOTE: By adjusting the neck expanding plug slightly deeper, Step 2 also provides a slight flaring of the case mouth for reloaders using cast bullets. (See Illus. C.) I would use a bullet dia of .311", RCBS DIES FLRS + the M Lyman die.

30-30 1977 Win 94 angle eject scope mount:

1) CCI200, .2.58" [ammo too long jams feeding must load single shot] Lyman mold 311291 170 gr .309" bullet round nose 3 lube bands, 25 gr IMR4895, 2.4" @ 100 meters.


2) 10 gr Unique 150 gr jacketed, 1.5" at 50 meters

One more vote for the Lyman M die. I use them in all my straight walled handgun loading and wouldn`t be without them for lead bullets.

As well as a mouth belling die, i just happened to have a .303 expander button on hand, for .311 size projectiles. Works great.

Seafffire said, "Original black powder loads were only about 1200 fps I gather in the 30.30.....they also have zero to little recoil at all at that MV...."

Not so. The 30-30 was never a black powder cartridge. The proper name was .30 Winchester Center Fire (.30WCF) and Winchester rifles were stamped that way. The cartridge was popular, so Marlin and Savage started chambering the round in their rifles, but not wanting to advertise for Winchester, called the round the 30-30. Seems like that name ended up being more popular and it not only stuck, but Winchester starting stamping their guns 30-30.
Many people back then preferred to load with black powder rather than the more touchy smokeless powder of the period. However the fast rifling twist of the 30-30 (1 in 12") fouled badly with black powder. Winchester then brought out the .32 Win. Spl. which had the 1 in 16" twist of the 32-40 black powder round. Date of introduction varies from 1902 to 1912, depending on whose history you read.
Regardless, the 30-30 was never factory loaded with black powder, nor was the 25-35. (25 WCF)
Paul B.

Go over to

www.castboolits.gunloads.com

and ask your questions there. Lots of advice available. I'll recommend right now that you should likely start with .311" diameter for your .30-30, and be prepared to do some extensive experimenting.

I'm loading seven different .30-or-thereabouts calibers with cast bullets, and it's VERY uncommon to have .309" bullets shoot as well as something larger in a standard .30 barrel (nominally .300 bore and .308 groove diameters). It's also much easier to get good performance in .30-caliber rifles with gas-checked designs than with plain-based bullets.

By far, the best situation is to be casting your own bullets, and you will never reach the true ability of the cast bullet in your personal rifle until you do cast your own. There are far too many variables for a bullet manufacturer to take into account in production-line commercial bullets, and only you can try all the possibilities by making your own CBs.

Loading cast bullets bears VERY LITTLE RELATION to loading jacketed bullets. It's a whole new world, which is why so many of us are hopeless CB junkies.