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Group, Tidbit here. Do you think I could use a Large Rifle primer in cases like the 7mm Rem. Mag or .300 Win Mag? I know the reloading manuals call for a "magnum" primer...I am not sure it is needed. Comments please. thanks, Always do right: this will amaze some and astonish the rest. Mark Twain | ||
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i've used both in large cases and to tell the truth i never noticed a difference. That said, i do use magnum primers in large cases (when 75 grains of powder or more) just cause it seemd like a good idea at the time | |||
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The only measurable differences I have seen are with handgun loads. Here mag. primers seem to produce higher velocities and higher pressures. I really haven't seen differences loading for rifles. I tend to use mag. primers in big cases with lots of powder(over 70 gr.) just because most books tell you to. Some day I will do some experimenting with the .416 Rigby and see what happens. C.G.B. | |||
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If it has a belt on it, I use a mag primer. Don't know what would go wrong using a standard LR primer but if something did go wrong, it would do it at the most embarassing moment. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Think my Speer manual shows using a magnum primer in regular cartridges, such as a 308 win for example, when using a sperical powder like BLC-2. Suppose the same is true for a magnum cartridge with sperical type powder. Other than that, have no idea. | |||
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I use a magnum for all my hunting loads, which will usually be and in colder weather. Whether or not it matters I don't know, its just what I have always done. I have also heard to use magnums in large powder charges. Auburn University BS '09, DVM '17 | |||
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I use mag primers in all hunting loads and generally use them in all loads. I also use them in all loads with ball powder. Example: I am working up some 257Roberts loads for my daughters rifle with swift A-Frame 120gr bullets for aN Africa hunt next year. I had some brass with regular primers and I primed some with mag primers using H-450 powder. The regular primers gave a group over 6" and the mag primers put 4 rounds into one hole with the 5th a called pulled flier. I just had a sandbag under the forearm of the rifle for support on both groups. This was repeated twice. So you can be sure her loads and all my loads will have mag primers when we hunt. | |||
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I think you would do yourself a favor by trying both magnum and regular primers every time you change powders in cases intended for more than about 40 grains of powder. Then I'd suggest using the ones which give you the best groups...that MAY also be a sign they are igniting that particular load the most consistently. Standard non-magnum primers have worked best overall for me over the years, but I use very few ball powder charges of more than 50 grains. (I almost exclusively use extruded powders in my magnums these days.) So, now I use standard primers in most of my magnum rifles; no magnum primers at all anymore in cases and loads of less than 84 grains charge weight. Not saying that the "standard primer" preference by my rifles is a good rule for you...just that it is the way it has happened to work out for me. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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For me, ball powders get magnum, or match primers. Stick powders usually get standard primers. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Antelope Sniper: For me, ball powders get magnum, or match primers.  Me 2! I've run into a number of click bangs with high volume cases , ball powders using non mag primers. The rifle you mention is probably a hunter? Well the accuracy difference if any by using the mag. primers in that rifle across the board should be nil in the field. The hang fires are not associated with ball powders only.  Have had the same condition with ,again, large capacity cases, non mag primers using 4064 , 7383 and a few others. If you are a safe load developer go with the Mag. primers in your rifle.  roger  Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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But then, I've always really liked the primers that go BANG!  Auburn University BS '09, DVM '17 | |||
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I haven't noticed any real problems with std primers in warm weather but extreme cold does have an effect. At -20 and colder I have experienced inconsistent ignition. Changed to mag primers and the problem went away. Now any load over 55 grs of powder or any loads that may see use in temperatures below freezing get mag primers. | |||
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Couldn't have said it better. The most significant difference in "standard" primers and "magnum" primers is the label and the price. Few people realize that the "power" of some manufacturers "standard" primers sometimes exceeds that of other manufacturers "magnum" primers. Naturally, I "primer-ily" use mostly "standard" primers. However, for a very large magnum case like a 7mm STW or any of the Remington Ultramag series, most especially when using a ball powder, I will use Federal 215's, which are demonstrated to produce about the most "flash" of any primer. I would add that I've never had a misfire or hangfire due to a weak primer, but then I've never had occasion to hunt or shoot in genuinely cold (minus degrees F) conditions, so if you do plan such shooting -- even with cartridges of modest capacity -- the use of a proven "hotter" primer might not be a bad idea. But like motor oil, at anything above freezing, good old straight 30-weight does just fine. | |||
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Nor could I have done so! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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Good IDEA? More than that I assure you.A MUST TO BE SURE. Click bangs are real. Side note **** It just started raining here for the first time in a long while ;Thunder : lightning and heavy down pour. In the last 5 minutes the temperature has dropped perhaps 7 degrees and going down. Its already below 85 degrees. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Yes. Total commonsense in that. And whilst I use standard LR primers in my 270, 6mm Remington and 280 etc., etc., I know shooters with more wisdom than I who use Magnum or even Match Primers...for the very reason that Alberta Canuck states. Certainly I found that CCI LR primers gave LESS velocity variation (all other things being equal) than Remington 9 1/2 in my 270 Winchester. | |||
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Although I haven't hunted in the coldest typical weather where I have lived (-55 F with no wind chill allowance). I have hunted plenty in -20 F temperatures. I have NEVER had a hang-fire or mis-fire with either standard or magnum primers in my hunting handloads. (I have had both hang-fires and rare occasional misfires with very old military rifle ammunition in various European chamberings such as the 6.5x54 M/S. I've had a LOT of misfires with old European military handgun ammunition, such as the 9m/m Steyr.) The rifle ammo I most commonly used magnum primers in is the .300 Wby loaded with 200 gr. Nosler bullets and from 93-to-95 grains of TCCI 5050 ball powder. Even there, there was less than 30 fps difference over the chrono screens between magnum and standard primer sparked loads...Federal 215s and Winchester standard LRPs. But as I had come into a huge lot of F215s dirt cheap, there was no reason not to use them, so I did. As an example of when standard primers may work better, I once (1969) ran onto a fellow at the Sherwood Park Gun Club range SE of Edmonton, Alberta. He was having a heck of a time getting any accuracy from his .340 Wby rifle and his loads using CCI magnum primers, H-4831 nd 250 gr. Speer bullets. I took him over to my home and we brewed up some identically loaded cartridges, except using RWS standard primers. Reduced his groups by over half and he had no hang-fires or anything like one. Conventional wisdom is always conventional, but not always wisdom. Nothing works as well as trying out your options in your gun to see what IT likes. The first thing I would do if I started experiencing mis-fires or hang-fires with either standard or mgnum primers would be to check the strength of the striker blow in my rifle. In the old days it was de rigeur to change firing pin springs on any older, used, M/S rifle one acquired. Their springs were often so weakened they would produce numerous hang-fires with standard factory ammo. ------------------------- Edited to add: TCCI 5050 was not, to my knowledge, a cannistered powder. Because it apparently wasn't cannistered for civilian use, it varied GREATLY in burn rate depending on the surplus source. Though the lot I used functioned apparently at safe levels with 95 grain charges in a Ruger M77 .300 Wby, many marketed lots would have been unsafe with charges at or below 80 grains of powder bearing the same "fuzzy" 5050 designation. If you ever find any powder labelled "5050", you are strictly on your own for loading data. I would recommend that if the supplier does not provide data for your specific batch, that you not use it at all. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Ball Powder = Always Magnum Primers Other Powders = Personal choise | |||
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 Some reputable members of the AR fraternity who I truly respect seem to have given rise to the idea that hang fires due to the combination of some primers and powders in large volume cases may not exist.  I have experienced it far more than once and with different time delays.WCC844 ( 335 ) and WCC846 ( BL-C-2 )were the 2 biggest contributors.   I just examined .358x.404 IMP cases I shot recently that had #34 primers, The firing pin dimple size measures .085"dia. and about 1/2 that in depth.I doubt if this rifle has a weak firing pin spring  Some 6.5x55 used primers measure a little less . These never produced a click bang. The folks who first noticed this happening with ball powder were not dreaming.  It is going on 12:00 and the temp is only 73 degrees. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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AC, I've had not what I would call a true hangfire, but kind of a slow ignition in the 7 STW with cci 200's and 100gr of ball powder...Of course this refelcted on paper, and the load grouped looked like they were shot with a shotgun. My extralarge charged of ball get Fed-215's. In this cases for me, the 215's provide the best groups, On the other hand, I've had very poor luck with 215's an traditional stick powders like H4831. In the 338 with H4831 and H4350, with the 215's groups open up fm 1" to 3", so in that case, I avoid them. | |||
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Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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NOPE, never. Not even when I tested them at 40 below. | |||
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I don't know who might have said hangfires or misfires do not exist. I said I had not experienced them with my handloads, which is true. But IMHO the important part of what I poosted was that I think one is better off trying the alternatives available to him in his guns, rather than going by some "rule" which wasn't tested in his gun or ammunition. I still believe that. If anyone else believes differently, then the way they believe is the way they should do things. I honestly don't care one way or the other. An opinon based on our personal experiences was what was asked for and I gave mine. | |||
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I think there are certainly certain combinations that work better then other. The more everyone experiments and shares their experiences, the better off all of us will be. | |||
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AS, did you detect slow ignition with the fed 215s? Slow ignition is a hang fire with a small time interval between click and pop.