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one of us |
I started reloading a couple of weeks ago. I had an old Lee handloader which I used to make up some 308 rounds with 150 gr. SP's and H380. Seems to shoot fine although no chrony yet. Then I get serious, got a single stage press to start with, dies for my 7x57, 300WM, 338WM, scrounged some other bits and I'm ready to rock and roll. I've been collecting some of the loads fellow participants use on AR also. Then I buy a couple of books, got the Lee and Lyman, looked at Hornady and will probably pick it up. Is it just me or are all the manuals completely different regarding starting and max loads? By the way, the Lee Loader is probably 20 years old but almost unused, and the loads are stiffer than what Lee currently lists. So who has the most trustworthy load data? | ||
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one of us |
Browningguy, I don't know which one of the manuals is more accurate. Lately I have been buying the Load Books that Midway sales. They are caliber specific, but they cover quite a few bullet manufacturers and powder companies. They are 7-8 dollars a piece. Not a bad price when you figure that you might end up spending 25-30 dollars for every bullet makers manuals. Just a thought. Britt | |||
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One of Us |
Browningguy- Almost all the powder manufacturers give their manuals away for free. Lee collects this data in their reloading manual. Sometimes bullet makers and powder manufacturers have data available that's not included in their manual. If you have a specific bullet and cartridge in mind, you can maybe get some data sent to you by calling the manufacturers. I got a page of 45-70 loads from a powder manufacturer. I forget which. I shoot 12 grains of Unique in my 45-70, and that gets the bullet out there as far as my iron sights can steer her. H. C. | |||
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one of us |
Thanks guys, I've seen the Midway books here in town so will pick them up for reference, also will contact powder companies and a couple of the bullet companies to see what they have. I really appreciate the quick help, I've gotten my cases cleaned, resized and primed for the 300WM and 338WM and wanted to load a few for this weekend. | |||
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one of us |
I have a couple of manuals, but my favorite summary is drawn from the Load Books. What I do is make a spreadsheet, with sourcebooks as the column headings, and powders as the row headings. From the Load Book, I collect everyone's data, and use about 35 fps per barrel inch to correct it all to the length of my barrel. I enter the muzzle velocity and max load in each cell where I have data. I do one of these for each weight of bullet I plan to shoot. This makes it super easy to compare everyone's max load, and it helps pick one that is safe. As I test a load, I replace the published speed with my actual speed, and mark the cell with a red dot. | |||
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One of Us |
The one that reads, "start off low and work up while watching for pressure signs" is the one to trust.. Your doing the right thing by getting different books to read. One reason for the variation is the individuality of rifles, they are as different from a performance standpoint as people are with personalitys. | |||
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one of us |
When someone tells you to load xx grains of a certain powder behind xxx bullet because it works great in his gun be careful.When someone suggests you try a certain powder and that you work up the load from a starting load you can trust this person a lot more. | |||
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one of us |
Most of the time the loads are different for several reasons.....they are using different primers.....they are using different bullets...the barrels may be different length and/or twist....the bullets may be seated closer to the lands....all of these will affect the load recipe. A manual I can strongly suggest you buy and read is "Any Shot You Want" as it contains a lot of very good information about the very topics you are asking about. | |||
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one of us |
good advice - proceed cautiously and cross check all your powder data as printing errors can occur - I check at least two sources before loading based on a printed error many years ago that splattered an L frame s&w revolver - be VERY cautious of loads that others boast of at the range - KMule | |||
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one of us |
When shooting high intensity cartridges, use the starting load exactly as it appears in the book, or back off considerably to start. Different bullet designs and materials have different components of friction that can raise pressures considerably. (This I have seen ). I am told, that primers can cause pressure variations according to make, but I have not seen that yet. Never start with a Max load. | |||
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new member |
Hi, Browning Guy. One of your questions about the older references giving a stiffer load; I read somewhere some of the powder formulas have changed slightly over the years with the new powders being a little more powerful. I have also read the reason for the newer data being lighter maximums is the liability problem. I don't remember where I read these opinions, probably from another board, so these are just opinions. Just some food for thought. Jim. | |||
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one of us |
I have found loads in Accurate Arms data to be wrong for AA 2015. I flushed the powder down the toilet. This is the only AA powder that I have tried. There is no reason to try more. The data at www.imrpowder.com is good. As others have said here we check at least two books just like a pro gets at least two quotes. Don't load to what the max is in any gun. It makes no sense when you think about it. | |||
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<eldeguello> |
One of the reasons manuals don't agree is the fact that ALL guns are individuals, including the pressure guns manufacturers use to develop loading data. Each one is going to perform a little differently, just as your rifle will shoot a given load differently than mine will! But, if you always start with the starting, or lowest recommended load in any particular manual, you will probably not have any dangerous situations arise. If you decide to increase a load from this starting load, do so slowly and cautiously, stopping when you find the most accurate combination that does not exceed safe levels IN YOUR GUN!! Cases should be reloadable ten to fifteen times, minimum!! If your brass wears out before that, your loads need to be reduced. | ||
<Mudruck> |
I generally use the data in load books as a 'guide' on where to start. Ive got books from Hornady, Lee, Speer and the Loadbooks for every caliber I reload for. Truthfully I dont think Ive ever worked up a 'max' load for any of my rifles. I just havent had the need to do so. I start at the average minimum load and add until I get the accuracy I want with enough velocity to get it out there without having to have a traj. like a rainbow. _IF_ any pressure signs appear before I get what I want from a load, I try another powder thats a little slower/faster. The data in the books is great, but as others have said each gun is an individual. The 36 grn load of Varget I use in my 22-250 might be under max load in one rifle and over max in another. Mudruck | ||
one of us |
BrowningGuy, These guys have been giving you some good advice. Always start low and work up. If you can find a friend with some reloading experience (who you trust), ask him or her to come over and give you a hand. I really like the Lyman reloading manual, but I have most all of them. Metallic Cartridge Reloading by McPherson is a good book, however, it doesn't have individual bullets listed, just listed by weight. It's best to be careful when working up loads with that type of data. Joel Slate Slate & Associates, LLC www.slatesafaris.com 7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm | |||
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one of us |
Believe the manuals and double check ANY load you get off the net against them to be sure it seems reasonable. If it sounds too hot, it likely is. Another thing to remember, as mentioned above, there is nothing wrong with trying for good safe maximum loads but don't push the concept. I just read an article about barrels which mentioned that 10% less powder will probably add 20% to your usable barrel life. Most game will never know the difference between a good middle of the road load and the maximum. If you need or think you need a bunch more velocity or bullet weight or some combination of the two, go to a hotter/bigger caliber. For most people, higher velocity, heavier bullets equal more recoil, which means less practice and less fun shooting and, depending on the caliber, of course, the likelihood of developing bad habits or a flinch. There are always exceptions, but in general, milder loads are more fun to shoot and less punishing on the shooter | |||
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one of us |
Thanks again guys, I got online this morning and Hodgdon, Alliant and a couple of others had load data on-line so I printed them off for reference. I have one friend that reloads who said he would come over to help me. Unfortunately we were at the range a couple of weeks ago to sight in a new rifle prior to a hunt and he brought his 7mmRem with his reloads. After he blew the case head off two rounds I decided I probably should not use his advice. | |||
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one of us |
In addition to the re-formulation of the powders, there's another reason the older manuals show hotter loads. In the "bad old days" they didn't use any kind of pressure measuring device, they just kept increasing the powder charge until somthing gave up (or blew up), backed off a grain and called it good. Velocities were measured by eye and ego estamate (it kicked me real good so it must have been moving at least 600fps faster than factory), not by chronograph. | |||
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one of us |
Browninguy, Case head separations can happen with just a few reloads of belted cases. You must set the FL die by feeling the FL sized case in the rifle as the die is adjusted little by little until the bolt closes. This is best done will the striker removed or held back so the cocking piece does not interfere with the feel of the case in the chamber. In reality all FL sizing should be done the same way but with belted cases remember that the chamber drawing and cartridge drawing have the case headspacing on the belt and not the shoulder. These belted cases don't last long. A handloader of belted cases must also make a wire feeler gage with a small hook bent on it's end to feel inside each case after sizing it. You will feel a insipiant head separation and know when to throw the case out. I cut them in half and then have a benchmark as how far I can go with them. With properly headspaced rimless cartridges this is not an issue. | |||
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<Loren> |
Aother vote for the Load books. Toss the Lee data. I bought the Lee book and I'm not using their data for anything anymore. They throw out all information about case brand, primer brand and bullet brand and just list bullet weight and power type. This might be valid for their "dipper" data which tends to run 20% light, but their max load data is very suspect in my book. Somewhere on this site is information about the impact of primers on load pressures - find it if you can -- it's a real eye opener. Now my first source for data is the ones where the pressure is listed along with the load data (usually the powder manufacturers), second source is the bullet manufacturer of the bullet I'm using. Always use care when approaching anyone's maximum charge and remember they list the average pressure they got but no one even gives a standard deviation let alone a spread. | ||
<Reloader66> |
Read your preface on all your reloading manuals. Starting loads are so important for one main reason and that is you do not put to little powder in the case. Nothing is more dangerous to any reloader than a sqibb load. A squibb load will blow a rifle and it shooter to bits faster than any over charged case. You have much to learn and those reloading books contain the right information to get you on your way. Always keep your brass trimmed to the proper length very important. Never every go below the starting load listed in your reloading manual unless it is proven reduced load listed in your shooting manual. Reduced loads are only used with certain proven powders and will be listed in the book. Get yourself a bullet puller so you can take loads apart should you make a mistake in your loading. When in doubt do nothing until you know for certain your right. There are fools out there who consider themselves experts on reloading, you must weed them out for your own safety. Safe sane reloading practices are the very first thing you need to learn. Remember this: shoot it fast it won't last, shoot it slow a long way it will go. Buy a good bore guide and a one piece cleaning rod to maintain your rifles in top shooting shape. | ||
new member |
Watch out as there they measure sometimes in PSI or CUP and these are not coparible that know of .all the manuals are different ,The components and test barrels change over the years and the equipment used to measure the pressures have become more refined . I also belive that these companys are more cautious and aware of the fact that lawsuits are more and more frequent | |||
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