I have a couple of questions regarding virgin brass?
I've been told not to use Winchester brass, especially in my 22-250, by my gunsmith and several others, due to unusual numbers of case seperation, any comments..... I have had several seperations using it right at the junction of the case wall and the shoulder.
If not Win, then which brand, Remington, it's even a little less expensive.....
I fireform the brass to 22-250AI and need some descent brass, Norma is expensive, is it any good? Lapua doesn't make 22-250 that I can find. Any ideas?

how are you fireforming your brass? i also have a 22& 1/4 ai, and have used a lot of winchester brass with no problems.

if your chamber was improperly cut you could be experienceing head space problems. two ways to cure the problem.

#1. open the necks and then run through the sizing die and put a false shoulder on the case neck until you feel a slight resistance when pushing the bolt handle down.

#2. make sure the bullets are touching the rifleing on a chambered round. this will insure there is no space for the chambered round to move in the chamber when it is fired.

my first guess would be your chamber is slightly oversize or the barrel was not turned in a complete thread when it was rechambered.

good luck. hope this helps you out.

I use Winchester brass in at least 4-5 rifle cartridges and never have had a seperation of any type. Cases last me for 10-12 fireings normally, and I toss them then "just because". I don`t fireform cases for any cartridges though. The fireforming operation requires you to hold the base of the case against the bolt face when forming to prevent stretching the case wall. The case should expand to fill the chamber from the shoulder neck area and not from the base of the case forward. If you don`t you will weaken the wall and early case failure can occure.
Winchester cases do seem to be a little thinner and have a slightly higher powder capasity then Remington or others though. The thinner case may not allow for as much of stretching before it becomes too thin. I am just guessing here though and don`t really think the brass is at fault.
If you want another brand to try, Norma is very good brass IMO, Remington is a bit heavier then the Winchester. Federal is also, but they don`t sell components anymore, you`ll have to fire factory ammo to get them. Then again you need to fireform any way.

quote:

I've been told not to use Winchester brass

There's nothing wrong with Winchester brass. Just because he's a gunsmith don't mean he has a brain. There's no exam to take nor is there a degree to get to become a gunsmith. Thank goodness there's not a lot of these self proclaimed experts on the industry.

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I thought I'd include a picture of what has happened......

I bought 500 rounds of Federal .223 brass for cheap, and won't get any more. Primer pockets were very inconsistant, and they last maybe 3-4 reloads till I just don't trust them anymore.

If you are on a budget, stick with Rem or Win brass.

I bought the weapon from a large wholesale outlet that uses several different gunsmiths. After the first email to the company, they asked me to drop the rifle off and they would pull it apart if necessary and make things right. They also asked me to bring my dies with me and they would shave a few thousands off them. Even if it turns out it wasn't done corretly the first time, I find it refreshing that they have offered to fix it and make me happy. Too often you hear the opposite.

I love Winchester brass. Not as good as Norma or Lapua but a lot better than the rest.

I am currently using Winchester brass, in a bunch
of different chamberings, to include .22-250 Rem.
and I have not had any problems with the
.22-250 brass. But this is not an AI, so I would not
be stretching the brass as much in this standard .22-250 chamber. I usually get about 10 loads
out of most of my Winchester brass, before the
primer pocket gets loose. I had one case head
seperation, with Winchester brass, and that
was in a .25-06 Rem. I believe that case had
a number of loads on it, so the seperation
didn't concern me much. Accuracy wise,
Winchester brass seems to be more consistent
than Remington brass, or Federal brass. I
have had several cracked cases with Federal
cases. So my first choice in U.S. manufactured
brass is Winchester. Remington, is my second
choice, and Federal brings up the rear.

Squeeze

I have used all the different types of brass mentioned here and never had any problems before. I think that STINGER has come the closest in diagnosing the problem....

Over the years I've had Frontier last as many as 15 reloads in a standard 22-250 -- WW has lasted about the same, in fact there really hasn't been to many problems with any brass until now.......

I've had a few split necks, several bases spilt from getting to thin, pushing things to far......

Overall brass has not been a problem, It is just now that I notice a problem.....

of course it might be the polish I put in the media to polish them,,,,, just joking........

You need to measure the shoulder dia. of a fired case before resizing and after. It almost looks like your resizing die is mis matched with your chamber dimensions and the shoulder is being work hardened.
Some reamers us a .460 dia. and some are .455

quote:

Originally posted by NEJack:
I bought 500 rounds of Federal .223 brass for cheap, and won't get any more. Primer pockets were very inconsistant, and they last maybe 3-4 reloads till I just don't trust them anymore.

If you are on a budget, stick with Rem or Win brass.

Amen ! roger

Have used Winchester brass in my .243 Ackley without any losses during fireforming . Did have a friend who had a batch of Win. .22/250 brass that split all the necks on the second firing though .Brass wasn't properly annealled .Could explain your problem .
Other possibility is a headspace problem which may be due to poor chambering but if occurring after fireforming (second or susequent firings) then is most likely incorrect FLS die adjustment or poor dies . Are you full length sizing ? If so suggest A) buy a neck sizing die and use it until cases become too tight to chamber easily and B) Adjust your FL sizing die out until sized cases will chamber with just a little resistance when the bolt handle is lowered . If you can't reach this point then the problem is most likely the rifle but possibly dodgy dies .
By the way , shaving a few thou off the bottom of your die will make things worse , not better .You'll be pushing the shoulder even further back if you set it up to touch the shellholder as is the common recommendation . Try another gunsmith because the guy who suggested that fix is no Einstein .

DuaneinND -- I took the time to measure the shoulder diameter. It was .455.5 according to my mic. Is this within specs. (fired case, not resized). The sized case (loaded) is .451.5 at the same point.

This portion of post was added later the same day ---- DuaneinND -- I was a wrong, the case above was partially resized, a full length resizes measurment was .450 at the same point...

Is this about right for a sized case (full lenght)? I do have a neck size die for the cartridge, however I deceided to full size these cases since they were just fireformed.

But the problem still persists, the case that I just measured will not chamber, I believe the shoulder is to far forward. I think the outfit that I purchased the rifle from is right on. I return the rifle and the dies. They will pull the rifle apart and check everything and also, shave a few thousands off the dies.........

Thanks, Mike

Hey Mike, Here are a couple of things to try on 5-10 cases.

1. Go to the Gun Shop and get a different Brand or Lot of Cases. Load and shoot 5-10 of them. Even a box of 22-250 Factory Ammo would do "if" your Chamber is cut properly.

Then reload 5-10 of them and see if you get the same Separation.

If you do, then it isn't Case related and you can eliminate that as a problem.

2. Take 5-10 new Cases from the Lot you are having problems with and "Anneal" the Case Neck as you normally would. Then Load, shoot, and reload them a few times to see if the Separation still appears.

If it does, then it is not due to the Factory Annealing and you can eliminate that.

3. Take a Case from the Lot you are having problems with that has been fired in your rifle and lay a Steel Straight Edge(steel ruler) along the side of the Case lengthwise before Resizing.

Then check to see if you can see "under" the Straight Edge between the Pressure Ring and where you are getting the separations.

If you can see under it, there is a problem with the Chamber right where they are separating. Maybe the Reamer wobbled slightly or wasn't made correctly to start with.
---

I can't remember if I've ever seen a Case separate at that spot or not. If I have it was a very long time ago. Which doesn't help you at all.

I have used Winchester brass for over 43 years. I have not had any provblems with the brass in that manner. Perhaps the die is set incorrectly, which overworks the brass.

Winchester brass is harder than Remington brass. This may account for the seperation. This doesn't happen in standard chambers.

AI 22-250 ,
The idea of fireforming a case is to make it exactly fit your rifle's chamber thus potentially improving accuracy . FL sizing immediately after defeats the purpose so suggest you look at neck sizing . Benchresters normally fireform brass even in standard chamberings before they use it in competition .
If you can't rechamber a FL sized case then perhaps your die is dodgy and does need to be shaved . More likely is that you need to screw it in to the press a fraction of a turn further .You don't have to stop as soon as the die touches the shellholder . Lower the ram and try going a bit further until cases just chamber with a little resistance when lowering the bolt handle .This may mean that you need to apply a few pounds of pressure at the bottom of the handle stroke to get the press to cam over .
The simple way to check for excess head space with a .22/250 Ackley is to chamber a new unfired case . It should be a crush fit in the chamber and you should feel a slight increase in resistance when you lower the bolt handle when compared to lowering it on an empty chamber .If there is no difference then your chamber is almost certainly overlength .
If you try the above and find that there is resistance then it's most likely a bad batch of brass that is causing separations .
Separations due to excess headspace usually occur closer to the case head than shoulder hence the name "case head separation".

The die is resizing the shoulder more than is needed. You can make a lap and polish the die out to .453-4535 this will help. You are doing the right thing in taking it back and having everything checked over it sounds like there are more problems than just the die.