Been awhile since I've been here guys. Here is my question:

I am in process of forming brass for my first custom built rifle and am still striving to call myself a reloader. Using Redding comp dies reamed by the 'smith as well, I am necking down 30-06 brass to 6.5 upon the recomendation of respected posters here and elsewhere. After necking down the case and attempting to chamber, the bolt is stiff to close the first time. The second time the case is chambered is as smooth as silk. Obviously, the brass is undergoing some change after being chambered on the first go 'round. I have not fired a round yet, in fact, have not yet loaded a round to actually fire form as of yet due to my concern about this chambering issue.

I have the die adjusted as far down as possible, if I am following the Redding directions correctly.

Is this "first time chamber" issue something to be concerned about or is this somewhat typical of brass that has been necked down. Everything else measures out correctly in regards to base to case mouth, throat angle, as best I can determine. Thanks for any input, Jim R

Jim R, I think this is a normal phenomenon. Until you actually fire those cases in your rifle, they don't "belong to that gun." Once you've fireformed them I think this tightness will vanish. Every gun is different. Take two rifles of the same caliber and chances are one won't chamber the cases from the other. I would say not to worry unless things get lots worse after you have loaded the round and you can SEE obvious places on the case where it is binding...like the neck.

Good luck with your new rifle. It should be a dandy.
P45

more than likely the necks are to thick for the chamber.if you try a loaded round it may stick.the necks could need turning before you fireform.I would want to know the chamber dims. in the neck area.

Thanks for the replies.

If I am reading my reamer schematic correctly, it is .3000. That is the measurement for the reamer design provided by my 'smith.

Turning my necks was something I knew I needed to do in order to fine tune accuracy, but I did not anticipate needing to turn before fire forming. Now that I look at the outside neck diameter of the case, it measures .2900. Thanks again, Jim R

Doesn't sound out of the ordinary, but if you'd try 25-06 brass, you'd have no thickening in the neck area and possibly smoother chambering.

I have a 6.5-06 Imp. that I made 2 years ago. I use 25-06 or 270 brass when I manufacture my own ammo. One thing that might be the problem is the shoulder. Once you size the brass down the shoulder might have a little ridge. Which will cause the bolt to be tight until you fire form. With the 30-06 brass the neck will probably be too thick as mentioned previous. The cases need to be trimmed. I love this round. I would try 25-06 brass because the neck is thinner and is pretty easy to size up. 270 and 280 brass are just a little longer brass then 06 brass. Just experiment a little.

I use 270 brass in my 6.5 Gibbs because it requires less brass movement and results in more concentric neck thickness than going up from 25/06 (I also can't get a false shoulder, which means I have to fireform with reduced loads and bullets seated into the lands, vs. the cream of wheat method). I definately notice the difference as I have a tight chamber, and have to turn the necks. The trimming to length is a bit of a pain, but I get better results in the end.

Canuck

[ 08-08-2002, 08:37: Message edited by: Canuck ]

Jim,

It sounds to me like you have a bit of a short or tight chamber. Can you tell from the marks where the brass is dragging? If it's just the shoulder you just have a minimum headspace chamber. If it's the side of the case your die might be a bit large for the chamber.

Try chambering a dummy round. If that works try a loaded one.

You may need to get a small-base die for full length resizing every fifth reload or so if the sides are dragging. If just the shoulder is bumping you may need to have a machinist shave .002 off your shell holder (cheaper to replace than the die). If so, mark the shell holder!!!

I don't think you have a serious problem. Just caliper and think a bit and you'll be OK.

I doubt if you'll need to shave the necks any, unless you have a "tight-neck" chamber. The .010 clearance at the neck is typical/generous, and .300 neck in the chamber is standard.

Don

When I first started fiddling with the dies and getting used to how they worked, I quickly noticed a protruding ring signifying the sghoulder from the 30-06 brass I was necking down. It helped me understand the die adjustment procedure and exactly how the brass was being manipulated.

When discussing this project with my 'smith, we both agreed that a true tight neck chamber was not soemthing I needed at this particular time in my career with custom rifles and reloading. We settled on somewhere in between from a "ease to load for" angle. However, he also recomended I neck up 25-06 brass and may have reamed the chamber with that in mind. I have decided against his recomendation on that and gone with necking down as my mode of creating 6.5-06. This decision was made with many months of study and opinions from folks here and at other sites. I will not go into all those reasons here, but I feel good about it so far, even though it may be playing a part in my original issue at the top of the page.

Neck turning was soemthing I had committed to and have no problem with. This weapon is somewhat of a hybrid. It will primarily be used off the bench but at times that same bench will be overlooking about 100 acres of hillside against the back of some farm land. This is my first jump towards the bench rest arena along with another stride towards LRH, so I certainly want to do this thing correctly. My plan has always been to sort of sneak up and learn about maximum accuracy as I go rather than try to affect maximum accuracy on the first round fired. That way I know what works for me and my rifle and what doesn't.

Thanks for the replies and the warm welcome back after not posting since hunting season or so! Jim R

You might try necking down in 2 stages...first to .284 and then to .264.

In my 6.5-06AI I use 270 brass sized and trimmed. It works very well for me. I have had a few 25-06 necks split when I tried them, never a problem with the 270. If you go with the 30-06, then DB Bill is right, go to 284 first then 264 and then turn the necks. With the 270 I never turn the necks, don't have to.

The 2 stage process is something I am definitely going to do when I start to use the Lapua brass I have stocked over the last year. I figured I would simply zip thru some Rem brass from what used to be my 30 cal until I knew I wasn't going to ruin a few cases during my early learning process. Thanks guys! Jim R

I've just tried necking down some 30-06 to 6.5-06 and I'm coming up with the same ring. I think it need to be resized in stages plus 30-06 will need to be trimmed before you load it.

Rick

Jim R---

My receipe for 6.5-06 brass from military match brass.

Run the lubed case through the 6.5-06 FL die that's been adjusted down until the bolt barely closes without a grunt. It's tight.

Load 16 grains of Unique then a small patch of toilet paper, then filled up with grits. I cap it with wax and shoot in a safe direction. That's NOT the toilet.....long story........!

You can go up a grain if the shoulder isn't good and sharp.

Go to a machine shop with ten of these fireformed cases. FIVE cases should have been full lenght resized and five left unsized. Ask the QC guy to run guage pins in the necks and tell you the dimensions.

Those measurements, and the difference between them will tell you how much you can turn off the necks to gain concentricity and still have enough brass to hold the bullets.

Never size in intermediate steps unless you HAVE to. If the shoulder/neck buckles, you need an intermediate step, otherwise don't. All it does is overwork the brass and make annealing more needed.

30 to 25 is an easy step. No intermediate needed for that or larger necks.

30 to 35 is no problem either. I prefer to fireform them than using an expander plug, though. The expander makes them crooked because the thin side of the neck expands first.... When fireformed they're straight.........

So why not fireform to begin with? It does work.

Jim R,
I don't think the bushing in the comp die is setting back the junction of the shoulder and the neck quite far enough. Sounds as if chambering the case corrects this problem. Go ahead and fireform the cases and they'll fit your chamber like a glove. Good luck.

I simply run .25-'06 brass through my Redding FL sizer die and I'm done. No neck turning, and no pinched bullets in chambered rounds.