I sure hope this isn't a dumb question, but here goes. I've handloaded for years and I've always gone by published load data, either from the powder or the bullet company. However, I have some .338 Barnes 160 grain X bullets, I bought them years ago, and never used them. The gun in question is a .338 WM that I've shot quite a bit, usually with Noslers. I wanted to try these 160's as I've heard some good reports. I checked the Barnes data, searched for some loads online, and compared data from my manuals. I have some IMR4831 on hand that I've used in other 338 loads, but nowhere did I find a load for the 160grain bullet with this powder.

I did find several loads for heavier bullets,for example, Nosler shows 71-75 grains of IMR4831 with their 210 grain and Barnes lists 67 to 73.5 grains with this powder for their 185 grain bullet. So, I wanted to try this powder with the 160. If I look at the burn rate of IMR4831 and compare that to H4831, the IMR is one powder faster than H4831. The starting load of IMR4831 of 71 grains fills 93% of the case, and 75 grains fills 98%.

Considering the burn rate, the volume of the case it fills, and that I've found loads in the 71-75 grain range for heavier bullets, it looked to me like IMR4831 should be perfectly safe to use. So, I loaded 3 test rounds-71,73, and 75 gr- in once fired partially sized brass, and a bullet seating depth 50 thousandths away from the lands as Barnes suggests. I ended up with 3088 fps with the 75 grain load.

I compared the fired cases with a new unfired case, and case head expansion measured on the belt and just forward of the belt is within safe limits.A visual check of the case didn't show any problems, the primers weren't abnormally flattened. In short everything looks good to me. I do think that this powder won't give me the velocity that the loads with other powders may give me, but 3088fps is plenty for me.

I have loaded up 10 rounds and I hope to get to the range today to see what kind of accuracy I get.

So, after this too long post, my question is this...If I get acceptable accuracy out of the load, and if I still don't see any case problems, can I consider this a safe load, or am I a wreck waiting to happen? Thanks in advance to anyone who can advise me on this, and sorry for such a long post.

QL calls the pressure for the 75gr load as 52,400psi.

I love, shoot and have done alot of research on the 338WM. The speed you are getting is NOT excessive. If you are NOT seeing any pressure signs and the loads are accurate, call them good. Ramrods QL calc is also not excessive. Good luck.

I shoot 200gr bullets near those velocity out of a 26" barrel without any problems.

I checked all the barnes manuals and none show IMR4831. This is because it is to slow a powder. They show nothing slower than H414. I would guess you can not get enough 4831 into the case to get to much pressure. I load for a couple of 338's but have never loaded the 160 X. If it is accurate and fast enough for you use it with confidence.

Cartridge : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet : .338, 160, Barnes 'TTSX' S 33873
Useable Case Capaci: 77.139 grain H2O = 5.009 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.641% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-06.4 107 73.00 3129 3477 48913 8712 97.1 1.177
-05.8 108 73.50 3151 3526 50050 8760 97.4 1.165
-05.1 109 74.00 3173 3576 51214 8807 97.6 1.153
-04.5 109 74.50 3195 3626 52404 8853 97.8 1.142
-03.8 110 75.00 3217 3676 53622 8897 98.0 1.130 ! Near Maximum !
-03.2 111 75.50 3239 3726 54871 8939 98.2 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 112 76.00 3261 3777 56152 8979 98.4 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
-01.9 112 76.50 3283 3828 57467 9018 98.6 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 113 77.00 3305 3880 58816 9054 98.8 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
-00.6 114 77.50 3327 3931 60201 9089 98.9 1.074 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 115 78.00 3348 3983 61622 9122 99.1 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
+00.6 115 78.50 3370 4036 63081 9153 99.2 1.053 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.3 116 79.00 3392 4088 64579 9182 99.4 1.042 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.9 117 79.50 3414 4141 66118 9209 99.5 1.032 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 117 80.00 3436 4194 67698 9234 99.6 1.022 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.2 118 80.50 3458 4247 69321 9258 99.7 1.011 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 115 78.00 3401 4109 65627 9056 99.8 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 115 78.00 3291 3847 57674 9140 98.0 1.093 ! Near Maximum !


Tjay has the right answer.

QL says you would need 78gr of IMR4831 and 115% compressed load to reach max pressures.
It 3350 that 160gr bullet should be pretty impressive on most NA game.

Thanks so much for the help guys. Especially the QL data, one of these days I'm going to invest in that software.

When I make a run to the gun store I'm going to pick up one of the powders that Barnes lists, but that trip may not be for a while.

I didn't get to the range today, but I'm going to check the loads out in the morning at my buddy's place, and if accuracy is there I'll be hunting deer with it tomorrow evening. I'll let you guys know the results. Thanks again for all the great help.

My comments are not on if the load is safe or not...that is for others more expert.

But, from "a Brit" viewpoint, this combination...160 grain bullet in a .338" cartridge...was tried unsuccessfully seventy years ago.

The 330 BSA. It was not a success as a 160 grain bullet of that diameter has the ballistic performance of a marshmallow.

Effectively whatever you start it off at at the muzzle it will shed velocity rapidly and by 100 yards will compare very poorly to that same weight bullet but in 7mm or .30" calibre.

Just my input. If you do shoot it at game be aware that it will have a rainbow trajectory.

As was found with the 330 BSA.

As Enfield said, the BC of a 160gr bullet in 338 will be pretty poor. The fact that it is a Barnes (monometal) bullet will help, as it will be longer than a similar weight cup & core bullet.

I fooled around with that 160 gr X bullet about 15 years ago in my 338 Win. It shot great groups for me with IMR 4350. I used it on a deer hunt once...

I shot a bay window through a whitetail buck with it. You could stick your fist in through the entrance hole, and shove it out the exit hole. I threw away most of the rib cage, and part of the shoulder. What a mess.

If you're a meat hunter, you might select a different combo. Even the plain old Hornady 200 gr spire point is much, much more meat friendly than that 160 gr Barnes.

Thanks for all the input. here's what happened with my tests...I did a quick sight in Friday afternoon before we went to the stands. Very good group, less than one inch, but I intend to wring them out some more. Right at the edge of dark I shot a 80-90 pound button buck, at a little over 100 yards. I wanted to do a neck shot, but he was ready to bolt so I held about 5 inches or so below the back behind the shoulder. he was broadside to me with his right side facing me. At the shot he flipped backwards and fell on his right side. I hit the spine and the entrance hole was small and the exit hole wasn't a whole lot bigger, however the spine was apparently dead centered. After we skinned him I took a good look at the damage, about 5 inches of spine was pulverized, but not a whole lot of meat was spoiled. One shot doesn't prove much, so I can't say for sure what would happen on a typical behind the shoulder shot, it could very well be too destructive.

It is true that the BC of the 160 Gr "X" bullet isn't that high, .337, and I am going to check out some more bullets, as well as another powder as soon as I get out to the gun store.

I probably should start a new thread with this question, but I just happened to find a new box of Nosler 210 grain partition bullet that I must have had for 10 years or so. I am going to load some of these up to test, but can anyone tell me from experience whether or not this bullet would be suitable for whitetail deer? I have to plead ignorance , I just do not know. My concern is whether or not the bullet would open up or not. I'll do some research and see what I can find.

Thanks again for the help, I appreciate it.