I've been shooting a pre 64 Win. 30-06 and it has shot OK groups (1 1/2") ...with other bullets but then I tried some Barnes TSX 180 and 168. It's shooting one ragged hole with both bullets (about an inch group) this morning.
I'm shooting Win. cases , WLR primers, IMR4831,

58.5gr IMR4831 for the 180's
59.5gr IMR4831 for the 168's

OAL 3.20

My question is: The instructions in the bullet box says that these can typically be loaded 1-2grs. above the load listed for the standard Barnes. Is this correct? I'm showing no pressure signs..just a nice flat primer so far and I'm thinking of working up in 1/2gr increments....or should I just sit tight with these loads?

Hey Sendero

I have shot a lot of TSX's and IMR4831. The most I've loaded is 60.5 gr with the 168 gr and 59 with the 180 gr. The most accurate load for my guns was at 59 gr IMR4831 with the 168 gr TSX for a velocity of 2750 (22" barrel).

I think you could work up but probably you won't be able to go far. You can get more velocity with RL22 but it was not as accurate in my rifle and by the time you get close to Max Load you are compressing the powder charge. IMR4350 delivered good results in some loads also.

IMHO, you won't be able to gain much and if your accuracy is good, stay with it and work on seating depth, etc.

Woods,
Thanks...I was hoping to hear from someone using the same powder and I'm going to take your advice.
I would like to experiment a little more but I don't have a chrono and it's getting close to season.
I already had a load I was going to use but shot just so, so. I loaded the 180gr TSX's just as an after thought. After they shot so well yesterday I returned to the range today with more 180 and 168TSX's. I was surprised , to say the least, as this rifle has been a real pain....it does love the TSX's though. I'm anxious to try them out on a deer or two and some hogs.

Sendero: I have a pre-64 Featherweight that loves 180TSXs. I'm talking 1/2" groups and 2700 fps plus. It's 54gr H-414 WW brass and CCI-200 primers. jorge

Sendero, my rifles just love RL 22 61 gr. and the 180 gr. TSX. I get 2750- 2770 fps. and .5-.7" groups with both rifles.

Geronimo

I think Barnes is full of BS!

In EVERY rifle I've used the TSX's in they require .5 to 1 grain LESS powder than a same weight lead/copper bullet to achieve the same velocities. Using 1-2 grains more powder would be dangerous in every rifle I've shot them in.

In my 30-06 I use a 168 TSX seated .050" off the lands on top of 58.5 gr's H4350 with Fed 210 primer and WW Brass. Velocity is 2,855 fps in my 21" bbl'd M70 Fwt. Accuracy is stellar!

Sendero a quick couple of thoughts from me.

First off, what is the farthest you are anticipating shooting with these loads?

Secondly I am not sure why with the type of accuracy you're getting you would want to try to pick up a few fps. I'd say stay where you are at with the charges and be done with it.

Mark D

quote:

The instructions in the bullet box says that these can typically be loaded 1-2grs. above the load listed for the standard Barnes

quote:

I think Barnes is full of BS!

In EVERY rifle I've used the TSX's in they require .5 to 1 grain LESS powder than a same weight lead/copper bullet to achieve the same velocities. Using 1-2 grains more powder would be dangerous in every rifle I've shot them in.

You two are talking about entirely different things.Barnes recommends using 1-2 grains more powder with the tsx than you would use with the standard barnes x.They do not say to use 1-2 grains more powder with the tsx than you would with standard copper jacketed lead core bullets.

quote:

First off, what is the farthest you are anticipating shooting with these loads?
That's a hard question to answer but probably not over 300 yards (and more than likely within 200)

Secondly I am not sure why with the type of accuracy you're getting you would want to try to pick up a few fps. I'd say stay where you are at with the charges and be done with it.

I'm pretty much done with it for this year but I want to chrono some loads next year just to see what it's doing...
I'm not one to push the envelope on handloads and I usually stay off the listed max. load at least a grain.

Jorge, this is the same Winchester that the barrel is real dirty compared to my other newer rifles. I have tried several factory loads and different handloads with less than stellar results. I was amazed (quite surprised) by the accuracy of the TSX's in this rifle.

BTW, I edited my OAL..it's 3.2 and my bullets are seated about .02 off the lands.

Sendero, you might want to try playing with seating depths. Barnes recommends starting with 0.05" off the lands. So far, for me that's been where I've gotten the best accuracy.

Geronimo

quote:

You two are talking about entirely different things.Barnes recommends using 1-2 grains more powder with the tsx than you would use with the standard barnes x.They do not say to use 1-2 grains more powder with the tsx than you would with standard copper jacketed lead core bullets.

I've found the TSX uses no more than .5 gr's over the same weight "regular X"... I still think Barnes is full of baloney but the TSX's are wonderful.

If you're already getting acceptable groups (I'm assuming), then why bother with more powder?

Hey Doc,
I'm not bothering with anymore powder for now. I've just loaded some up and I'm going hunting.

My main question was.. do you typically load up to 2 grs. more than you do a standard Barnes and I believe Brad answered that along with Woods who loads the same powder. I know each rifle is a law unto itself but was curious as to what the Barnes reloaders had experienced.

Sendero:

So far, I've never worked up a load (as far as I recall) with the TSX and reached max load or over published max for standard X bullets.

As I'm working them up, I've always had very good groups before max was reached.

Actually I got real close to max with 180 TSX and 58.5 gr IMR 4350 for a 2860 fps. Shiny extractor grooves - kick the #&%@ out of my shoulder (6# rifle). Shot it on the 14th of January, wouldn't want to shoot it in the summer so I backed down. One of my best groups though. That's one thing I've noticed about the TSX's: they shoot well just under MAX.

I did start at 56 gr IMR 4350 and worked all the way up to 58.5 gr.

Sendero: The following is the final load I came up with after following what the guys at Barnes told me to do, (start at lowest X bullet charge & go up in .5gr increments up to a max of 2gr above the initial amt.)
BULLET: BARNES 30CAL .308 dia 168GR TSX
POWDER: IMR 4350
BRASS: FRONTIER-fire formed
CHARGE WEIGHT:59 GR
PRIMER: FEDERAL GM 210M
This load is currently printing .7" @ 100yds at at 280fps. It took some playing arround with the seating depth but I have to agree with .05 off lands. I'm looking forward to seeing what these will do with a Georgia whitetail. Good luck with your loads.
Taz

quote:

Originally posted by Tazfla:
This load is currently printing .7" @ 100yds at at 280fps.

umm, my bow shoots faster than that.

I am using 168 TSX and 50.0 grns H4895, groups are about .6" and getting 2780 fps (22" bbl.)They are about .030 off the lands. I don't know if I'll get to use it this year during deer because my .300 Savage is ready for doe (130 XLC) and for buck I'll probably use the old .270.........

So many guns.....so few tags......

IV

Doc:
Typo.....one of these days I'll learn how to type & spell. 2800fps.
But I can only get 173fps from my Longbow, I shoot traditional. It's kinda fun without sights or wheels, but compounds sure do the trick out beyond 25yds.
Taz

Taz, you know I'm playing. I "typo" all the time. I also applaud you for your pic on traditional shooting. I like the idea but do not have the confidence with it.

Hey Doc, it's all good fun. By the way you should really try traditional you'd be supprised how well you do once you practice a bit. And harvesting an animal with a logbow with a string I made & arrows I made is super rewarding. Have a great weekend....shootem in the 10 ring.
Taz