I just came from another chat room where the guys were talking about whether it's best to FL or neck size their brass. As always a couple guys chime in and explain how they neck size using their FL die...they stop just short of bumping the shoulder back....and therefore they have neck sized.
Don't know why this drives me crazy...I would define the process as a 99.9% FL sizing. About the only way to Neck size (w/FL die (would to be using an oversized die to just size the neck...say I ran a 270 win case into my 270 wby die...it wouldn't touch the sides of the case--only the case mouth.
Anyhow I don't know why this description drives me crazy...I should lighten up for the Holidays!! I would have posted this over there but figured I'd get in trouble!!

I could never understand why, with thousands of dollars invested, they just don't spend the $15 and buy the right tool for the job...

kraky

As Bill Clinton would say, "It depends on what your definition of neck-sizing is." Benchrest shooters neck size only about 1/2 of the neck, most other shooters will neck size only about 2/3 of the neck. For either of those a full length die can be used. If you want to size the entire neck, take Steve's advice and buy a neck size die, because you're right, a full length sizer won't do that. For serious hunting ammo you should FL re-size, IMHO.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
kraky

As Bill Clinton would say, "It depends on what your definition of neck-sizing is." Benchrest shooters neck size only about 1/2 of the neck, most other shooters will neck size only about 2/3 of the neck. For either of those a full length die can be used. If you want to size the entire neck, take Steve's advice and buy a neck size die, because you're right, a full length sizer won't do that.
Ray

Right on.
--------------------

quote:

For serious hunting ammo you should FL re-size, IMHO.Ray

On this part I sorta think differently. If you have a large chamber and use rounds which have been reloaded more than once or with hot loads, I'd totally agree. There could be some chance that a neck-sized or partially neck-sized case could be a tighter fit on either insertion or extraction than you would want.

But, if you use brass which has only been fired in your chamber once with moderate pressure loads (for that round), and your rifle has a nice concentric, minimal dimensioned chamber, I have no loss of confidence when hunting with either neck-sized or partially neck-sized ammo.

Natural "spring-back" of the brass will still have it closer to original cartridge specs than to SAAMI chamber specs. So, functioning should be reliable and the case should be well centered in the chamber, which can't hurt accuracy.

kraky

Don't know, I might be one of the guys that you disagree with. But, it is my understanding and experience that you can use a FL die to neck size about 2/3 to 3/4 of the neck before the die contacts the case body enough to actually begin sizing it. At that point it will start sizing the case body and in doing that push the shoulder forward. Then the die has to be threaded further in until it contacts and pushes the shoulder back.

So, IMO, if you want to neck-size-only and are satified with only 2/3 to 3/4 of the neck being sized, then you can use a FL die without sizing the case body.

That being said, I use Lee Collet Neck Sizers and Redding Body Dies (when needed) in every caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
...I should lighten up for the Holidays!! ..

Not me. Plan on Venison Cube Steak, half a dozen eggs, grits, hash browns, gravy and Hot Biscuits with Red Ripe Tomatoes from the garden for Christmas Breakfast.

Still have just a few tomatoes left. Brought them in back at the first frost when they were Remington Green, wrapped them in newspaper, put them in a cardboard box and set them out in the COLD garage. Unwrapped them at Thanksgiving and may even have a few make it until 01Jan06.

Headed for the old "enhanced" Egg Nog right now, but want to wish all you guys a big old

Merry Christmas!

quote:

...they stop just short of bumping the shoulder back....and therefore they have neck sized.
Don't know why this drives me crazy...I would define the process as a 99.9%

I agree with you. I use my FL dies set to size about the first 1/3 of the neck, just whatever is required to firmly grasp the new bullet. (As long as I am sizing cases that have already been fired in the rifle the ammo is for!) But I do not consider this to be "neck-sizing only". For that, you need a neck-sizing, rather than a FL sizing, die.....

Gee, I neck sized using a full length die for years until some hair splitting, nit-picker with too much time on his hands and nothing of import to do started saying you couldn't. Then a whole new term leapt into our vocabulary: Partial full length resizing. Now tell me that ain't a oxymoron. If I blacken an entire case and adjust my die so that only the neck is marked by the die, then, guess what, I'm neck sizing. Learn to live with it.

Neck sizing with the FL die has always worked perfectly for me I guess it depends on how much money you wanna spend so I have to call the BS factor on this topic!

Hammer;
I couldn't agree with you more!
Lots of BS on this topic anytime it comes up!

As I see it, if I can use my FL die and size the neck, just until I get to where the shoulder starts, and not push the shoulder back at all, I am not resizing the case body either!

So, in my opinion, that constitutes neck sizing!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Not me. Plan on Venison Cube Steak, half a dozen eggs, grits, hash browns, gravy and Hot Biscuits with Red Ripe Tomatoes from the garden for Christmas Breakfast.

Still have just a few tomatoes left. Brought them in back at the first frost when they were Remington Green, wrapped them in newspaper, put them in a cardboard box and set them out in the COLD garage. Unwrapped them at Thanksgiving and may even have a few make it until 01Jan06.

Headed for the old "enhanced" Egg Nog right now, but want to wish all you guys a big old

Merry Christmas!

Hey HC

Maybe you've been into the "enhanced" Egg Nog too much already if you think you're eating red ripe tomatoes!!

HotCore, man you know what is good. That sounds awesome as a breakfast to me, and you appropriately highlight the tomatoe as the capper! I wish I had a few good ones......

Had an improvised BLT the other day--with some of the forced ripe 'maters from the grocery store--just not the same.

Merry Christmas to you.

Oh yeah, I PFL resize with the Incomparable Kraky Method. All my dies produce good, and some produce awesome concentric ammo after the Kraky tune.

Thanks--Don

Gents,

Remember that, in most cases, a FL die will start "squeezing" the case body(much like squeezing a hotdog) long before reaching the shoulder juncture......depending on the case taper. This squeezing can, and will, lengthen the case headspace.....causing a tighter bolt closure, possible galled lugs, etc.
Use of a headspace gauge during die set-up will show this effect.

Just my 2 cents......

Friend Of The 17
Kevin Gullette

In about 75% of the belted magnum rifles that I've reloaded for, screwing the F.L. resizing die in the press until it touches the shell holder results in case seperations after about three loadings.

Call it what you want, but to me if the die isn't touching the shell holder, it's not full length resizing.

It would be hard to neck size a .300 Tietz-Novotny Thunderbolt case in a full-length die, but with its body taper you can size a lot of the neck of a .300 H&H in a full length die.
The body taper makes enough difference that generalizations fail sometimes.
Regards from Darkest California,
Ross

quote:

Originally posted by iwzbeeman:
Gee, I neck sized using a full length die for years until some hair splitting, nit-picker with too much time on his hands and nothing of import to do started saying you couldn't. Then a whole new term leapt into our vocabulary: Partial full length resizing. Now tell me that ain't a oxymoron. If I blacken an entire case and adjust my die so that only the neck is marked by the die, then, guess what, I'm neck sizing. Learn to live with it.

I can't even remember neck sizing dies in early or late 50s. And really who beside some self ordained purest even cares. It's Christmas Eve and I'm expressing myself in a dignified manner. Believe it or not I still have green tomatoes on the vine. Roger and a holy happy Christmas to all

You guys that are "neck sizing" with the FL dies.....send me your case lube--you don't need it anymore...that FL die is just touching the neck right??!!!

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
You guys that are "neck sizing" with the FL dies.....send me your case lube--you don't need it anymore...that FL die is just touching the neck right??!!!

Go buy your own Bardahl. roger

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
...Maybe you've been into the "enhanced" Egg Nog too much already if you think you're eating red ripe tomatoes!!

Hey Woods and Fish, I was going to say it is a shame you all aren't a bit closer and I'd give you some. On second thought, it is miserable cold here(rain and 40s) and I really don't think you all deserve to be subjected to it.

Only had room in me for that one meal today, and I sure did enjoy it.

Goooooood Egg Nog though. Had to use Maker's Mark, out of Rebel Yell! Doesn't take much for me any more - get sleepy before anything WILD can happen.

quote:

by Roger:
...I'm expressing myself in a dignified manner. Believe it or not I still have green tomatoes on the vine.

Well, Merry Christmas indeed. As much as I like good tomatoes, I just don't see me living in Califoney in order to have them all year. Maybe a Greenhouse is needed on my end.

Maybe I missed something, but I've never noticed anything but "dignified" posts from you.
---

Now for this Neck Sizing with a Full Length Die. I believe it is possible if you only Resize a short portion of the Caseneck and if the FLR Die "dimensions"and the Chamber "dimensions" are such that the Casebody is not touched by the Die during the Resizing. It is what I refer to as Partial Neck Sizing with a FL Die(P-NS w/a FL Die).

I can't think of a time that I have ever seen a FL Die (for the appropriate Cartridge) have the ability to completely Resize the Caseneck on a fired cartridge and not Resize the Casebody at the same time. (Egg Nog or not.)

quote:

As much as I like good tomatoes, I just don't see me living in Califoney in order to have them all year

Try S. Texas. I'm still getting about a pound a day from my 6 plants, and at that rate I'll be good through January with what's on the vines!

If the die touches the sides, it isn't just neck sizing anymore. My Hornady NS die claimed to be good for my 300WSM, but still touched the sides enough to lengthen the shoulder. P-FL sizing all the way since that failed experiment.

NS dies with threaded spindles and threaded expander balls make great decapping dies!

Hey CDH, Tomatoes through January sounds great. Do you use anything special to make them "hang on" during Hurricane Season?

We need an update on that aggravating rifle you've been wrestling with. Got an email over Christmas from a guy with a Custom 338WSM that has given him fits from the get-go. Changed everything except the Receiver and Stock, but rebedded it twice.

Needless to say he was disappointed. He had it in his hands and just haappened to notice a "light line" in the paint of the MPI stock. Took it apart and discovered the stock appeared to be cracked. No idea about when it happened, but it is headed back to MPI for them to evaluate.

Put a M70 stock on it, full length bedded and the first 3-shots were all in one hole just bigger than a 1/4" group.
---

I think I still have two Die Sets with Neck Sizers in with the Full Length Resizers. Every 5-6 years or so I like to re-run a Blind Accuracy Test of P-FLR against NSing. So far the P-FLR has always won.

But I can see where folks would like the convenience of NSing without the Lube to deal with.