I have a fairly new Marlin 1895 Guide Gun that I am looking for the perfect load for. I am looking for a balance between tame muzzle rise, accuracy, and maximum velocity. I don't have the money to go mixing up a bunch of different loads and test them. I like the factory Winchester 300gr Partition Gold rounds, but am wondering how they get them there. On the other hand, I love the Black Hills 500gr Magnum Loads but they are around $36 a box. Could someone please steer me in the right direction as far as bullet brand, weight, powder type, and grains, etc ... I already have around 500 unprimed Winchester Brass that I am anxious to get loaded up. Thanks in advance for your help. Also, a few variations would be great. I just don't want to end up with 6 different brands or types of powder and spend more than $100 on bullets just to have them not be what I want.

I don't hunt with a 45/70 but do shoot one quite a bit at targets and for fun. I have a 1895SS with the 22" barrel. Had a Guide Gun but did not like it.

For all around best powder choice, I pick Alliant Reloader 7. You can load light loads or full power loads, all with one powder.

I like the bulk Remington 405 Softpoint bullet. Economical and accurate. Many report them quite deadly on deer and black bear.

With the 405 SP bullet:

I like 33 grains of RL7 for a very light plinking load.

42 grains of RL7 is a moderate load but very accurate for me. Would be good for deer.

50 grains of RL7 is full power (1850 FPS ave chrono'd,) extremely accurate, and about all the recoil I want.

I don't shoot many of the premium bullets. I have shot the Speer Hot Core in 350 and 405 grain weights. They shot well but are pointy and you have to pay attention to OAL for them to function reliably in the Marlin.

I have also shot the Hornady 350 flatpoint with great results. This is a good bullet and would be my first choice if I were to use the 45/70 for hunting regularly. Good balance of power, velocity, and accuracy.

All with work with Reloader 7 powder.

Happy shooting.

I second the recommendation for Reloader-7.

In my experience the powder provided the highest velocities with bullets ranging from the Sierra 300 JHC to Speer 400gr SP.

The 400 gr. Remington bullet uses a much harder lead alloy than the Speer, and will not expand at all. The Speer bullet is better for deer, but the Remington bullet is best for boars or bear.

I have always used IMR 3031 in my 45/70's a Ruger No1 and a Marlin 45/70.
Last week we tested some loads in my brothers Marlin Guide gun. With the 350 Hornady FN 54 grains shot very well at 50 and 100 yards.
With a 405 gr. bullet 53 grains shoots very well.
The 350 gr Hornady is my favorite 45/70 bullet for all game except for protection from the brown bear, for that I would choose a 400 gr premium bullet, or a Garrett Hammerhead.

From cast GC'd bullets up to a 500 grain pill, you can't go wrong with RL-7 or 4198. Both are stick powders that are easy to throw and trickle.

I know many say its dirty and fouls badly, but I also like AA5744 in the old cartridge.

This is all out of a 16" TC pistol. I will be able to get exact loads at the house...I am at work right now.

Darrell

50grs of RE7 behind the Hornady 350gr RN.... This is in a Siamese Mauser conversion. Works wonderfully well.... Check the manuals for safety in the Marlin, though...

If you're going to use jacketed bullets, you really can't go wrong with the Hornady 350 gr RN. It performs better than the 300 gr HP and has a bit more smack 'em power (technical term). Every now and then Lock and Load has a "blem" or overstock sale on these and you can get them much cheaper than cast bullets, unless you're casting them yourself, of course. And then, I doubt that would be counting the value of your time. I like them around 1800 to 1900 fps level, that seems to work well on hogs and whitetails without whacking your shoulder too hard. For bears, which I've never hunted and never will, I'd probably step it up a bit.

For out and out practice/weekend type banging, if you're shooting a lot, use cast at orginal type velocities. Fun with minimal recoil.

I suggest you find one load and stick with it. The 350gr Hornady is a great bullet for a general purpose load as are the 400gr jacketed projectiles at around 1600fps. Personally I use a hardcast lead bullet (420gr) infront of a compressed load of Varget, kicks like a mule, but its my hunting load pure and simple.
Cheers...
Con

I took my Marlin 45/70 out for the first time this weekend myself. I had 20 rounds loaded with 52gr of IMR 3031, 405gr Speer FP in Winchester brass. The gun shot pretty good at first, but damn did it kick. I don't normally have a flinch that is noticeable, but man after about 6 rounds this bastard had me flinching like crazy. My shoulder is still sore today. I gotta get my head straight the next time I go out to get over the flinch I reckon.

Wes

WesN:

Don't fight mother nature! Your body is telling you it doesn't like the crap kicked out of it. Duh, wonder why? Back way off on your loads for practice or you will be in serious danger of developing a permanent flinch.

I love my Marlin levers but they are definitely not well designed as far as lowering the felt recoil to the shooter. Why hurt yourself for the fun of it? If you're going to hunt with heavy loads, fine, sight them in, and go from there. I've never subscribed to the idea that you've got to practice with what you hunt with. Why? If you know how to shoot, once you establish trajectories for your hunting bullet/load, then why should you take the heavier hunting loads recoil for practice? Especially for a .45-70 where the trajectory takes out practical long range hunting. Practice light, hunt with what is necessary.

IMR 3031 was my choice as it offers all the velocity I can stand (1800 fps w/ Rem. bulk 405s) at moderate pressures. some claim the Marlin is good for 40000 cup, IMR 3031 keeps you under 30000, why ask for trouble.

405 grs at 1800 out of a stock 1895SS is miserable.

I appreciate all of the help. I will gladly take more advice if some of you have more. As for the flinching thing, I simply don't flinch that noticably. I'm not a really big guy, but I am used to shooting a 10gauge mag on Ducks so the 45/70 mag loads are right up my alley. I kind of like something with a little kick to it. Like I said earlier, I love the Black Hills Magnum Loads, but they are way too pricey for me.

Regarding flinching... Gatogordo is right, the Marlin stock is not designed to handle recoil that well. Given a choice between my 458Lott with 500gr at 2300fps or my 45/70 with 420gr at 1780fps, I'd take the Lott everytime! A 300gr at 1700fps makes a lovely practice load in the 45/70.
Cheers...
Con

Another thing ... an 'Old Timer' the other day mentioned using fillers in the 45/70 cartridge. IS this necessary? Or is it him talking about using true black powder to reload the cartridges? Also, what purpose does the filler serve?

Never used fillers, too much bad press regarding ringed chambers.
Cheers...
Con

For deer and black bear I would try the following:
Marlin 1895 45-70
300 grain Speer UniCor hollow point seated to 2.53" and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die
Winchester brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primer
52 grains H4198 START
55 grain H4198 HUNTING LOAD
HUNTING LOAD yields 2180 fps from a 22" barrel

For elk and moose you could try:
Marlin 1895 45-70
405 grain Remington JSP seated to 2.55" and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die
Winchester brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primer
48 grain H322 START
55 grains compressed H322 MAXIMUM
MAXIMUM yields 1950 fps from a 22" barrel

Work up carefully from START toward MAXIMUM watching for signs of excessive pressure or velocity.

375 grain pure lead swaged paper patch flat point bullet, .452 diameter. Two layers of onionskin paper. Lube is 50/50 vaseline and bees's wax. 47gr. 4895. I agree no fillers, use a powder that fills the case better, like 4895. This load is not a powerhouse. Even so, the bullets expand like stepped on bubble gum and hold together. They penetrate like crazy and have exited all pigs I killed with them. The exit hole is nearly and inch in diameter. You get two holes that leak profusly. These bullets fired into a water recovery tank flatten out into a very large diameter mushroom shape and do not shed pieces. There is no significant bloodshot meat. You can eat right up to the hole. A buddy tried them in his microgroove marlin and got 2" ish groups at 50 yards, over the hood of the pickup. This is my favorite game load. I shoot them in a formerly 7mm rolling block with a Numrich barrel, P-14 with a Shaw barrel, or a Browning '86. Accuracy is good in all three.

-Rem 405gr SP seated to ~2.60" OAL, fairly heavy crimp with Lee FCD into cannelure
-Win brass trimmed to minimum specs
-Fed 210 primer
-50.0 gr IMR 3031

Mashes hard on both ends

I don't have a book, per se. What would be the best reloading book to get?

As far as a reloading book for the 45/70, I'd actually get several. Or, perhaps, you could find a copy of the "Loadbooks" pamphlets which contains data from all the big powder and bullet makers. Their phone number is 805-250-8502.

The problem with 45/70 data is that there is such a wide range of information for so many different firearms chambered for 45/70. Some books only publish light loads suitable for antique and weak 1873 Trapdoors, some publish data for Marlin strength rifles, and some publish Ruger and Siamese Mauser loads which would wreck either of the two previous types of rifles. You have to be careful and load within your limitations.

Marlins are quite strong but recoil becomes fierce and painfull on the upper end.

One other really imporant tip on loading 45/70 is to keep your brass trimmed. In my experience, 45/70 brass is among the worst for lengthening over time. If you keep it uniformly trimmed they will reload easier and I believe will give more accurate loads.

Happy shooting.

I have used the 45-70 for many years and in my Marlin Guide Gun my favorite load for moose and black bear is:

Reloader 7 @ 51.0
350 Hornady FN
fed 210Match primer
WW Cases
Crimp using Lee factory Crimp Die
Less than 1" load @ 100 yards