I reload for a number of different calbers and mostly use Winchester brass. I am getting ready to order some new 30-06 brass and I see that Lapua is now makiing 30-06 brass and I am wondering if it's really worth going to that much more cost for brass used in my hunting rifles. $50.00 compared to 110.00 per hundred. Anyone using the Lapua brass? Does it hold up any better then the Winchester?

Thanks
Aaron

Winchester brass is plenty good for the typical hunting rifle. Althought Lapua brass is considered among the best, I wouldn't worry about it unless I was turning necks for a custom rifle.

I know a lot of "serious" target shooters like Lapua brass. For me, at that price difference, I would definitely be going Winchester. It's highly unlikely that Lapua brass would hold up enough better to be worth more than twice the price of Winchester brass.

quote:

Winchester brass is plenty good for the typical hunting rifle

While I agree there is nothing at all wrong with Winchester brass (as is) for hunting I take a higher quality brass when I can. So if I loaded for the 30-06 I'd go with the Lapua.

I watching people send hours of time trying to get their reloads perfect, load developemtn, runout tension, primer holes etc. That will then balk at spending extra for quality brass that would equate to a few cents per reload. Then turn around and pay an extra 50-75cents for a premium bullet in cases were they aren't needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I know a lot of "serious" target shooters like Lapua brass. For me, at that price difference, I would definitely be going Winchester. It's highly unlikely that Lapua brass would hold up enough better to be worth more than twice the price of Winchester brass.

Sounds like you've never used Lapua brass. Providing you don't have some way oversized chamber it does last longer then other brands. I'd rate it among the best brass out there.

I spend a lot on brass... sorting and all.

I would rather have 500 Win than 100 Lapua.


But I like to prep.

Okay Paul,
I don't disagree that quality brass is a factor in getting the best out of my reloads. So what is it that Lapua brass has that Winchester brass doesn't. I don't care Rem. or Federal brass. I have never used it and I am not one to go changing things just because it's new.I have been using the same loads in my 270's and 30-06's for over 40 years and they have always performed as needed. Now, can I make them better? I load for 4 different 30-06's and 2 different 270's (all Mod 70's) with plain old H4831, Winchester brass, Sierra or Nosler 130 & 180's. Maybe a few 200 gr bullets. I go thru the normal brass prep steps of trimming, deburring and so on but normally don't turn case necks. Factory chambers don't usually require it.

Now, for you and any others thaat would like to join in. Can I improve on any of this? My reloading books are old as well so I have no data for RL19 or 22. Will they work any better the whhat I am using?

Thanks
Aaron

BTW: A great list for gettiing other opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
While I agree there is nothing at all wrong with Winchester brass (as is) for hunting I take a higher quality brass when I can. So if I loaded for the 30-06 I'd go with the Lapua.

I watching people send hours of time trying to get their reloads perfect, load developemtn, runout tension, primer holes etc. That will then balk at spending extra for quality brass that would equate to a few cents per reload. Then turn around and pay an extra 50-75cents for a premium bullet in cases were they aren't needed.

quote:

quality brass is a factor in getting the best out of my reloads

assuming we mean higher priced.....this has never been proven in my eyes.

Further, I have yet to see that all those hours spent in case prep does anything for accuracy either.

Emotional issues forged by marketing hype to maximize profits!

Is Lapua brass 'worth it'? Those who think so buy it. Those who don't, disagree. Few of us buy it.

Carolina Man, It really depends where you are on the accuracy curve. Are you shooting inch groups wanting to go to 1/2 inch groups. Are you at 1/2 wanting to go to quarter?

Cost does not always mean higher quality. Thats why I asked to start with. Tell me why Lapua is so much better and worth twice as much.
Quality brass is the very reason I do not like Rem or Federal brass. Seems to vary between lots, soft, thicker, too many things to make it worth while. Not ever tried Hornady so I have no comment.

Aaron

quote:

quality brass is a factor in getting the best out of my reloads

assuming we mean higher priced.....this has never been proven in my eyes.

Further, I have yet to see that all those hours spent in case prep does anything for accuracy either.

Emotional issues forged by marketing hype to maximize profits![/QUOTE]

Aaron, Lapua brass is very consistant in weight, as well as wall, and neck thickness. As previously mentioned, it's also lasts a long time. This is nice if you plan to do alot of prep work.

I expect good hunting accuracy out of my guns. At least MOA. And yes I can shoot them pretty far out. My 24 years in the Marine Corps taught me that. None of my guns are custom guns just good off the shelf rifles in wood stocks except my old beater gun which is the most accurate in an old Winlite stock. All wear good glass appropiate for the caliber.

Is there a spell checker in this thing?

Aaron

quote:

Carolina Man, It really depends where you are on the accuracy curve. Are you shooting inch groups wanting to go to 1/2 inch groups. Are you at 1/2 wanting to go to quarter?

quote:

Cost does not always mean higher quality. Thats why I asked to start with. Tell me why Lapua is so much better and worth twice as much

I've found that with Lapua I don't have to do the prep look you are talking about. I do put a value to my time others like spending time getting their brass ready. I don't. I'd rahter work on one of the other 100+ projects I've got going on.

I used to weight sort, trim, flash hole & primer hole ream new brass. With Lapua I have 100 cases ready to go. No trimming, capcities were as close or closer than I would normally sort, everything uniform. I have some that have been loaded hot in my 25-06 that are ready for their 10th loading. I NEVER got 10 with my load in my 25-06 with other brass.

Please do not get me wrong you can take winchester or many other brands and with a little work you will almost as good. Heck in most hunting rifles most of the prep with a lot of brass is probably not needed.

When I would weight sort my brass I found that I would have 25-30% I didn't use. I sure wasn't going to fine tune a load for two (or more) capacities of brass.

I buy 100 cases for a rifle normally those will last me the life of the rifle. An extra $50 is a one time cost plus it saves me time.

I think a guy should buy what he wants and is comfortable with.

Paul,
Your resizing 30-06 down to 25-06. Are you having to ream necks or do any other prep work?

Now that might be a reason for me to buy some of Lapua brass. Because I shoot a lot of 25-06 in my long range rifle.

Aaron

To be quite honest, the Lapua is good brass, that like mentioned needs little if any prep done. It is VERY consistent in weight and volume. Doing a side by side comparison of loads using one case of each brand, the Lapua would probably hold up the longest to the most extreme loads.

If your shooting a factory chambered rifle, and have a good load using Win cases, that aren't pushing the upper limits of pressure, then I would suggest simply spending the money on them.

Now if your shooting out of custom chambers where the cut might be on the tighter side of specs, and you will be running your loads a bit hotter, and your trying to squeak out the last bit of consistency, then absolutely go with the Lapua.

All this said, I have a custom built 25-06 AI with a minimum dimension chamber. Using standard Winchester 30-06, Lapua 30-06, and standard Remington 25-06 cases, I have done comparisons with 5ea which all weighed the same. I sorted out 5 of each for the test. during which I developed loads with one set from low to top end. The next set I used for accuracy testing which they all faired about the same but did have different POI's. The next set I chose the max load for my rifle with Ramshot Magnum, and started running them through to see how many loads I would get from each. I found the Remington gave up first with a loose primer pocket after only two loads. The Winchester held firm right along with the Lapua until I had 10 loads on them both. I did find I got a split neck one a couple of each, but I do not hold this against them as I did not anneal or anything else special. I simply loaded, shot, and full length sized them all the same.

I now feel that for my money the Winchester will do a fine job on anything I am going to use it on personally.

I do however know of plenty of folks who use high octane calibers in both standard and wildcats which prefer the Lapua hands down. But for a poor boy like myself, like mentioned I would rather have 500 over the 100 for the same money.

If you look over to Bruno's Shooters Supply or possibly even Midsouth, they will let you purchase as few as you want by the piece. Order you up 5 or 10 and give them a full work over. Who knows your old loads might cut the groups in half.

I want to thank everyone for their input to my questions. I think I will just contiue with my current way of doing the Winchester brass. Especially since I found WIN BRASS 250 Pieces for the same amout of 100 Lapua. I can do a lot of prep work for the difference.

Thanks All
Aaron

Gentlemen,

The 12/08 issue of Handloader magazine had an article in which the author tested various 308 Winchester loads with various types of brass for load accuracy and case life among other things.

In the accuracy department, Nosler was best, plain Federal (as opposed to nickel plated) came in second and Lapua came in third. Winchester brass came in at number 10; dead last.

As far as case life went, Nosler was the worst at 11 reloadings before failure. Plain Federal cases got 12 reloadings before failure, Winchester cases got 14 loadings before failure. Lapua brass got 15 reloadings before failure, Remington nickel plated brass went 22 loadings to failure and, best brass life of all went to Norma with 24 loadings to failure.

Interestingly, when accuracy was tested with once fired brass which would have been prepped (the above were with virgin brass), Nosler brass was best, Winchester brass came in third, plain Remington brass was forth and Lapua brass came in at number SEVEN!

So, assuming that those trends are accurate across the board in other cases by those manufactures if you want the most in accuracy you should go with Nosler but that would give you the worst case life. If you want the best case life, you should go with Norma which is right in the middle of the accuracy department. If you want the best of both worlds, you should go with Remington which was in the top 5 accuracy wise and had next to the best case life.

IMO, if you are shooting a highly precise target rifle where to shave a .001" from the group is reason for celebration, then by all means go with Lapua. It's good stuff and will shorten your case prep time.
If you're shooting a HUNTING rifle, especially a factory rifle, it ain't worth the extra unless you're on an ego thing. You're better off spending the money on some of those magic bullets to play around with so you can find out they're pretty much a blue gosling also.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
Gentlemen,

The 12/08 issue of Handloader magazine had an article in which the author tested various 308 Winchester loads with various types of brass for load accuracy and case life among other things.

In the accuracy department, Nosler was best, plain Federal (as opposed to nickel plated) came in second and Lapua came in third. Winchester brass came in at number 10; dead last.

As far as case life went, Nosler was the worst at 11 reloadings before failure. Plain Federal cases got 12 reloadings before failure, Winchester cases got 14 loadings before failure. Lapua brass got 15 reloadings before failure, Remington nickel plated brass went 22 loadings to failure and, best brass life of all went to Norma with 24 loadings to failure.

Interestingly, when accuracy was tested with once fired brass which would have been prepped (the above were with virgin brass), Nosler brass was best, Winchester brass came in third, plain Remington brass was forth and Lapua brass came in at number SEVEN!

So, assuming that those trends are accurate across the board in other cases by those manufactures if you want the most in accuracy you should go with Nosler but that would give you the worst case life. If you want the best case life, you should go with Norma which is right in the middle of the accuracy department. If you want the best of both worlds, you should go with Remington which was in the top 5 accuracy wise and had next to the best case life.

Good post...

However I'd be willing to wager that in 90 days if this experiment is totally repeated the results would be different and not by a small margin!

chit - i didn't know 06 brass came in anything other than LC or TW