Hi guys!

I asked a few days ago which is the best powder for the 300. I have been using 4350 and it seems that people really like Re22. What about it is better? Have you found it to be accurate? Fast? Both? The reason why I ask is because in my Nosler book it comes in as being 13fps SLOWER than 4350 and in my SPEER book, it is approx 80 fps FASTER than 4350. I haven't shot the Re22 so I don't know anything about the accuracy but the aboce example with one book saying it's faster and the other saying it is slower confuses me. Any thoughts, suggestions and opinions welcome!

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HI CANADUCK

In my reloading I look for accurate and speed
you need to get some R22 and try it. when making up loads for my gun I will try 5or6 powder out and primer to see witch ones do the best for accurate and speed. I use IMR 4350 in my 375 JRS the R22 did not give my the best accurate in my 375 JRS but the R22 work great in my 270 WIN. you need to just give it a try to see if it works better

with a 180 i think you will run into pressure at about 2950 with 4350.with rl22 you should be ablr to get close to 3100 with better accuracy.

Reloader 15, 19, & 22 have so far given me better accuracy than IMR powders. The difference in vertical stringing is really noticeable at longer ranges (500 & 600 yards).
Oh yes, I also like the way they meter in my powder measurer.

Also remember that on this forum you are talking to people from all over. Some powders are not available to everyone at their local dealer. I also handload for the 300 and I give a slight edge to RL22. They both have about the same accuracy but I can get a tad more velocity with RL22. Also Alliant has been reformulating and revamping of their powders and packaging. Here is a article for RE15. If their consistancy is good on the 15?...

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROVES ALLIANT'S RELOADER 15� FOR NEW .308 SNIPER ROUND

12/01/2001

Radford, VA (December 2000) - Alliant Powder is pleased to announce that the Department of Defense and the US Army Operations Support Command have selected Alliant'' Reloder 15� as the new propellant for the 7.62mm (.308), M118 Special Ball Long Range Sniper Round. This cartridge will feature Reloder 15� with a 175 grain Boat-Tail bullet. It will become the standard issue, long range. .308 round for use by all military services. "After rigorous testing by the US Army of all appropriate rifle propellants, including those knows as 'extreme powders', our standard, canister grade Reloder 15� was selected over all others, said Pete Jackson, Director of Sales and Marketing for Alliant Powder. "Not only did Pressure, Ballistic Performance, and Lot to Lot Consistency but did so across a broad range of temperatures and distances, " continued Jackson. Testing by the US Army was conducted at 'ambient' as well as 'hot and cold' temperatures ranging from 125 F to � 40 F and at distances from short range to 1,000 yards. The new ammunition will be made at the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant, Independence, MO. "We are very pleased with this development" said Dick Quesenberry, Canister Sales Manager. "The US Army's selection of Reloder 15� further proves that the quality performance of our canister powders is second to none. With Reloder, the target shooters and hunters consistently get the best powder for their handloads that money can buy, day-in and day-out regardless of the conditions." Alliant Powder markets five powders with progressive specifications in the Reloder series. Reloder 7 provides the fastest burn rate and is perfect for light rifle calibers and the .45-70. Reloder 15� is the powder of choice for medium rifle, short action calibers and high velocity varmint loads. Reloader 19 is an excellent performer for standard long action calibers like .270 and .30-06 as well as the .338 Win.Mag. Reloder 22 is designed for magnum calibers and is especially effective in 7mm Rem. Mag. And .300 Win. Mag. The newest powder in the series, Reloder 25, is the slowest burning powder and is ideallly suited for heavy magnum loads with larager case capacity such as .30 � 378 Wby. Mag. Packaged at Alliant's modern commercial propellant facility in Radford, VA, the series of Reloder Powders are available in easy to pour 1 lb. and 5 lb. canisters. Alliant Powder is a wholly owned subsidiary of Alliant Techsystems, an aerospace and defense company headquarters in Hopkins, MN. A founding member of the Hunting and Shooting Sports Heritage Fund, Alliant Powder contributes a portion of every sale to help promote public awareness of the shooting sports industry and to support the industry's legal defense efforts. For more information on Alliant Powder and its complete product line-up of smokeless powders for shotgun, handgun and rifle ammunition, contact Alliant Powder Company, Route 114, P.O. Box 6, Radford, VA 14141-0096, (800) 276-9337 or visit our website at www.alliantpowder.com. Free Reloaders Guides are available upon request.

Hope this helps

Canaduck,
Just a note to say that I have used both and found the IMR 4350 to be some what sproadic with it's preasure signs and the R22 was consistent.
I Believe in my rifle the R22 is more accurate.
Old Timer

IMR 4350 is a bit on the fast side for maximum velocity with 180 grain bullets in the .300 Winchester (if that's what you're shooting.) It would be pretty good with 150's, however.

Pressure being equal, the slower powder (RL 22) will give you greater velocity.

As for accuracy, that depends on the particular gun, bullet, and various acts of God.

I haven't loaded for the 300 Win Mag, so I can't offer advice on that.

I have, however, used both IMR4350 and Hodgdon4350 in several different rifles. I think that H4350 is a far superior powder. It seems to be a bit slower burning than IMR4350, so you can probably use slightly heavier loads of it than what is safe with IMR4350. Also, the Hodgdon is usually very accurate, and also gives great shot-to-shot velocity consistency.

I would also suggest that you try Hodgdon4831. It's slower burning than H4350 (and also slower burning than IMR4831). It is the most accurate powder I found for my 300 Weatherby magnum (although, if you're going for maximum velocity in that caliber, IMR7828 seems to work best).

[This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 08-10-2001).]

I have tried a number of powders in my McMillan M-86 300 win mag. I have found that with 190gr match ammo, using 72.5gr of RL-22, It doesn't get much better. I think this load is in fact an AMTU standard load. It shoots very accurately under any conditions. It meters easily and is a pleasure to work with.
I recommend you try some.

Try some Rel 25

It is just a bit slower than Rel 22.

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May I be half the man my dog thinks I am.

I started off using 4350 with my .300 Win in the early 70's. Went to 7828 when it came out and got more speed with accuracy. I didn't get one hole groups until I started reloading RL-22, and I got considerably more speed. The books do not tell the whole story. You have to use your own chronograph to verify your loads, or not shoot with all the information that can be gained. Each and every rifle is different, you simply have to shoot yours enough to figure what it likes and dislikes. Good Shooting.

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Pat is right. Every rifle is different. A chronograph is a must if you want to really know what your rifle is doing. The manuals are accurate for the rifle that was being shot to obtain the data but it is not a very accurate way to determine how your rifle will perform. In general the pattern as to which powders are best for a given cartridge will hold fairly well but with your own chronograph data you will find the patterns for your rifle to almost always be different.

IMR4350 is one of the most versatile powders available to the handloader, and has been for 20 years. REL22 is becoming one of the most versatile. The 300 WIN MAG has an inherent problem in that it is chambered in many actions that restrict the OAL of the cartridge. In many cases a faster powder, such a IMR4350, can be more efficient than REL22 due to this restriction. Specifically, when load densities exceed 102.0 it is more efficient to go with the faster powder and lower the load density.
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Warren Jensen

Warren@lostriverballistic.com
lostriverballistic.com

[This message has been edited by Warren Jensen (edited 08-10-2001).]

"IMR4350 is one of the most versatile powders available to the handloader, and has been for 20 years."

Warren:

I agree that IMR 4350 is a fine and versatile powder, but I know it's been around a lot longer than 20 years. I believe Du Pont brought it out in the '30's. Does anyone know the exact year?

Try RL22 with the F-215 primer and see if you do not get good results. I get 3100 fps from a 24" barrel and under MOA accuracy.

There's been lots of comparisons between 4350 and RL22, but isn't RL19 closer to the burn rate of 4350? On the chart that I have, it lists IMR4350, H4350, RL19, IMR4831, H4831, RL22, IMR7828, H1000 (fastest to slowest).

Hal:

Your list is pretty close, although individual powder used in particular circumstances show some variation in apparent relative speed. It's not clear that IMR 4831 is much, if any, slower than H4350. It is certaily much faster than H4831.

Stonecreek,

You are right about it being older than 20 years. I was embarrassed to show my age. According to Clay Harvey in Propellant Profiles, IMR4350 was introduced in 1940.

As far as relative burn rates you will find that certain powders, IMR4350 and REL22, among them have flexible burn rates. That means they will burn at relatively different rates in different cartridges. REL19 and REL22 will overlap in burn rate. I once loaded for a 300 WIN MAG that shot the mathematically identical velocity with the same charge of each of these powders. In practice 19 is somewhat faster that 22 and a little slower than IMR4350. H4350 will vary from a little slower than IMR4350 to a lot slower. H4831 is effectively the same burn rate as REL22, but is not as flexible. When starting loads with these two powders I can often start at the same place. Because they are so nearly the same burn rate, but with different chemistry, it is often true that a cartridge that should work well with a powder in this speed range will shoot one of them noticeably more accurately than the other. When doing load development and using REL22 or H4831 you should always check the performance of the other one. H450 fits right in there also, but it is a double base powder and not very flexible. With the right load though, it can be an incredibly accurate powder. IMR4831 seemed to be more flexible when Dupont made it. The newer lots are a tad quicker and don't seem to be my powder of choice as often after a detailed load workup.

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Warren Jensen

Warren@lostriverballistic.com
lostriverballistic.com

One thing I see hasn't been touched on is that slower powders cause more rapid wear of the throat. If you're getting satisfactory performance and want to give your rifle to your grandson, think about that. If you own stock in a barrel company ignore it.

Well I was pretty much settled on IMR4350 for my .308 target loads, and heavy for cal. hunting loads, as well as my .338Win hunting loads.

I started with REL19 pretty late in the game. I was able to not only duplicate velocity's but actually got a bit more with a few loads, while retaining fine accuracy. I lost interest with REL tho as 4350 was just to good across a big cross-section of the loads I shoot. I know the powder, I trust the stuff, and ive been useing it a long time. BVuying the big can's really helps out with cost.

If I had to , however, I'd have no problem going back to REL. I have faith in that powder as well. As far as I know Im the only one that has really explored the use of H-380 with 150 grn SPBT .308 bullets. I can attain 3000 fps , out of a 24" tubed 3006 with unbelievable accuracy for a sporter.

With H-380 I have always used the CCI magnum rifle primer. This primer really spikes up the burn quickly, so far no pressure problem's, tho I wouldnt shoot box after box of the stuff.

I'll be trying this mix with the 150 grn .308 scirocco as soon as I can get some.............good shooting............10

Hi, Guys:
I tried H4350 Short Cut when my dealer first got it in. It was least 2 grains faster than any IMR 4350 I've chronoed. Haven't touched the stuff since.

Bye
Jack