Anybody got any ideas on the powders Federal and Hornady are using in their High Energy/Light Magnum loads.
I would love to find some of it. Its probably proprietary stuff but I would think that Hodgton, IMR or Alliant would be
cooking up something similar - that stuff rocks.

According to one source the powder would be of no use to a reloader as specialy tooling and procedures are needed to manufacture these loads.A fellow I know who uses these loads pulled a bullet to see how much powder is used but could not get it all back in the case after dumping it out to weigh it.Given this situation a reloader may not be able to reproduce these loads.

Evidence suggests that this ammo uses highly compressed loads of slow burning, high-energy powder, PERHAPS inserted and compressed BEFORE the shoulder is put on the case (like the British did when loading Cordite in .303 cases), so there's no way anyone could accomplish such a step with ordinary tools.

Just to check, the amount of powder used in these loads. I just pulled out the bullet of a Hornady 180 grs. High Energy cartridge. The powder weighed
65.3 grs. physically it ressembles H870. The Hogdon Manual No. 26 lists a maximum load of 64 H870 for a 2424 fps. vel. and a CUP pressure of 36,600. By the way with a long funnel I didn�t have problems, putting the powder back into the cartridge. Of course it is impossible to identify a powder just by physical similarities. But being the pressure so low I�ll work up a hotter load and let you know the velocities obtained.
Good Hunting.

All indications are the the "High Energy" factory loads are very dense loads of slower-than-usual powders.

The closest that a handloader can come to duplicating them is to (1) select a dense powder which has a burning rate that is normally too slow for a given cartridge, (2) use a fired, neck-sized case, which will have more capacity than a new or FL-sized case, (3) drop the powder slowly through a 12" to 15" drop tube, filling the case all the way to the mouth, then (4) set the case on a vibrating surface to settle the powder enough to allow the bullet to seat without deforming the case.

We've always known that the slowest powder which generates the maximum working pressure will (generally) also deliver the highest velocities. By "super compressing" these slow powders to ustilize a few percent more propellant than can ordinarily be used, the higher velocities can be achieved. BTW, I've usually found slower-burning compressed loads to be more consistent in velocity and accuracy.

A word of caution here - These ARE proprietary and very specialized powders. It would NOT be in your best interest to get creative attempting to mimicking these loads. Several of our more imaginative types have pulled bullets and experimented with these powders, unfortunately with disastrous results. It is always a good idea to dutifully follow published reloading guides. Becoming a powder pioneer is not conducive to long term health.

[ 08-12-2002, 19:06: Message edited by: Zero Drift ]

Rifleman1, I made handloads for the 30-06 using H-870, going up to 67 grs. without signs of high pressure at all including the velocity. The higher I obtained was 2400 fps. The rifle I used was a Francotte with 24 " barrel. So we can conclude that the people at Hornady are using a very special powder, but I think that with a faster burning rate than H-870.
Good Hunting.

I achieved 2875 fps with the Nosler 180 PP in a 22" Ruger 30-06, using 62/RL22. The case had to be tapped to get the powder in, but it was otherwise no problem to load. No overpressure signs, and primer pockets still tight on the second loading.

If you want a magnum buy a magnum its cheaper then paying the surgeon to pick metal out of your eyes and paying for the training of a seeing eye dog!

Stubblejumper hit the nail on the head. Even if we could get the powder it would be of no use to you and I as our "standard" reloading equipment would not allow us to use it as the "normal" powders we use do. The volume is so much more due to the type/burn rate that we could not create a reload that would give and maintain the peak type are obtaining in the factory "magnum" loads. Trust me (I know those are scary words)I already tried.

Good Hunting, "Z"

I keep reading about some sort of special technique of loading these unknown powders that are in the Federal HE and Hornady Light Magnum Loads - one post says you can't get it back in - another post says no problem. Another post says the powder looks just like any other granular powder. My feeling is that these new powders being used will eventually be duplicated and marketed by one of the powder manufacturers - because they will sell. I think that some powder manufacturer developed the brew and is selling it to Hornady and Federal - maybe two manufacturers and it is being sold exclusively for their factory ammunition - but someday someone else within the powder manufacturing community will release something similar for the reloading market - I'm waiting.

Rifleman1, the debate started because it was stated that the high energy and light magnum cartridges, had a huge amount of powder and needed special tecniques to fill the case. I have seen it written in many magazines. But nobody actually said the exact amount of powder obtained. I actually diassembled 5 hornady light magnums, 30-06 180 grs. bullets. I measured them with a RCBS electronic scale and the mean weight was 65.3 grs. of a spherical powder similar in siza and color to H-870. This amount of powder filled the case to half the shoulder area with a 8" funnel. So I can assure you that Hornady is not using special tecniques for reloading this cartridge/bullet combination. I stated that it looked like H-870 and that by phisicall comparison nobody can tell what type of powder is being used. JUst for the fun of it I started loading rounds with H-870 not obtaining high pressures, one of the most obvious signs is the velocity obtained even lower than some manuals. These loads were safe in my rifle. With the Hornady factory ammo I get 2830 fps. and their charge is 65.3 grs. of an unknown powder, wich by attending only to the volume is faster than H-870.
Good hunting