I have two boxes of unfired CIL "Dominion" 7x57 brass on hand a friend gave me. It's untarnished and has been stored in boxes in dry conditions for at least 40 years. Can I still use it?


It is primed too. Should I knock out the primers and replace them with fresh ones? I have no idea when they were primed. It could be ten or 20 or even 30 years ago.

You could try to fire a primer or two to see if they are still good. They should be but I'd test a few. As long as the brass is clean it should be fine.

I believe that brass can age harden so I would anneal before use and treat it as good as new.

Von Gruff.

I agree it can be age hardened. If you anneal remove the primer first!!

I disagree with the idea that an inert metal can age harden. I'd sooner think that the expansion/contraction of firing work hardens it, not age.
I am open to other thoughts though!

Personally I'd load and fire if a couple of the primers pop off.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
I disagree with the idea that an inert metal can age harden. I'd sooner think that the expansion/contraction of firing work hardens it, not age.
I am open to other thoughts though!

Personally I'd load and fire if a couple of the primers pop off.

So you've never seen old military ammo where the brass age harden and the neck split and that's without firing....just setting in the ammo boxes?

Are you aware that cast bullet age harden?

You need to take another look at this occurrence.

Nope I've never seen necks split from age alone. Brass is more stable than lead/tin mix so I doubt that it'd harden.
I've got some very old loaded ammo and it looks as good as the day it was loaded. (Think 577/500 PP BPE rounds)
Is there some possibility the the old corrosive primers could cause the military rounds to split because of the mercury in the primers migrating?

I've fired milsup ammo that was over 50 years old and then reloaded the brass w/o a prob.
IMO, when you get neck splits on old ammo, it's an oversized bullet forced into an undersized neck and over time the neck tries to contract.
Kinda like a heavily compressed load will over time push the bullet up. It's caused by the elasticity of the brass.

I've also fired old brass with no problem. I've also seen old military ammo that split just setting. I've also had M 1 Garand ammo split just about every case down the side to aging problems. Those of your that haven't are lucky.

I would load a test sample of your brass with new primers. The old primers may fire, but your accuracy load might change when you use a different primer. As for brass aging, i feel it has to do with the powder inside and how brass is stored.Ammonia has a great effect on brass. Brass stored in a barn can become brittle. Brass Work hardends. Cast bullet, depending on the alloy can harden or get softer. The more tin, the softer the bullets gets over years/time.

modulus of elasticity- Cartridge Brass-
Material is 70 copper/30 zinc with trace amounts of lead & iron , called C26000. Material starts to yield at 15,000 PSI when soft (annealed), and 63,000 PSI when hard.
Material yields, but continues to get stronger up to 47,000 PSI when soft, and 76,000 PSI
when work hardened. Modulus of Elasticity is 16,000,000 PSI. This means to pull a 1.000 inch long strip to 1.001 inch long induces a 16,000 PSI stress.
So if you pull a 1.000 inch strip to 1.005 inch long, you get about 76,000 PSI, which is the max obtainable.Olin Brass Fact Sheet Link

I'd rather not debate whether brass hardens with age. I would make a comment that brass that was made 30 years ago was NOT annealed as consistantly as it is today. With older brass some lots were quite soft and if you fired max loads in new brass you could losen primer pockets. Shoot that brass with lighter loads a couple times and it would then handle max loads for 4 or 5 loads with no primer pocket problems.Norma brass was often like that. I have also seen some older brass that would split necks on the first firing. Two odd calibres I've experienced problems like this are Win brand 264 mag brass and Rem brand 6.5 Rem mag brass. If I anneal those cases before I fire them there are no problems.If I don't anneal I would loose 3-4 cases per 20 to split necks in the first firing. If that 7x57 Dominion brass was mine I would anneal it then run it through the re-size die and treat it like new brass.

40 pieces of new 7x57 brass $30
Retaining your eyesight and facial features priceless

My experience with unfired old brass is that if you can verify that it has been stored properly (like you bought it and stored it away from fumes) then you are good to go.

If you don't know how it was stored then it needs to be annealed.

Old loaded ammunition that splits on firing has probably been stored improperly and exposed to fumes which will cause necks to become brittle.

Classic example is stuff found in barns where the ammonia fumes will cause significant corrosion and hardening.

It is also my belief that fired brass will become brittle after decades because of firing residue so reloads will start splitting much quicker than loads in new cases.

I have previously expounded on this in questions on ultrasonic cleaning.

Yes old brass can harden. Yes old brass may be fired without incident. No, old brass will not work the same as new, ductile brass. No old brass will not last like new, annealed brass.

If I were to try to use 40 YO brass I would certainly anneal it first--assuming I was such a cheapskate that I would not pop for new--better-- brass--and that I really did know how, and have the proper tools to anneal the brass, which the majority people who reload for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ do not.........

A rebuttal in advance--if you are not living on a disability pension like I am and you can't see the real value of premium brass--you are pennywise and poundfoolish--and a cheapskate--also range brass is at least 1/2 brass that's been abandoned by handloaders as being beyond redemption..................

They have a place in London where people can get up on soapboxes and rant about stuff like this....................in the USA it's called San Francisco, but there are not many shooters there..................

Actually there are a lot of shooters in San Francisco and nearly 30 ranges

http://www.dragunov.net/bay_area_ranges.htm

Aw, come on Amamnn. Are you suggesting the guys buy Lapua brass to use in their hunting rifles? And, FWIW, if a fellow can't pick up a piece of range brass and tell if it's new or a reload, he pretty new to the game and should let it all lie. Me?? I grab all I can get and cull it at the house.
And too, these guys that think they can put a case on the end of a ruler (or hold it in their fingers), heat it with a blow torch, and then knock it off into a pan of water and do a better job than the factory, are kidding themselves. They may be annealing the brass but in a very haphazardous manner.

I have been using R-P cases that were purchased in 1974 or before for 300WM, .308, and 30-06.The .308's are on their 5th reload and the 3rd for .300 and 30-06 and not so much as a split neck yet. I FL size every time. approximately 500 cases in total. I guess i should add i have about 5 lbs of H4831 and about 1000 magnum and large rifle CCI primers left that were bought at that same time that still go bang every time. I think the name of the game is storage.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Aw, come on Amamnn. Are you suggesting the guys buy Lapua brass to use in their hunting rifles? And, FWIW, if a fellow can't pick up a piece of range brass and tell if it's new or a reload, he pretty new to the game and should let it all lie. Me?? I grab all I can get and cull it at the house.
And too, these guys that think they can put a case on the end of a ruler (or hold it in their fingers), heat it with a blow torch, and then knock it off into a pan of water and do a better job than the factory, are kidding themselves. They may be annealing the brass but in a very haphazardous manner.

AGREE

More internet legends are posted.

quote:

I believe that brass can age harden so I would anneal before use and treat it as good as new.

I Agree with the above Post an Poster ; It never hurts properly annealing old brass , especially if your not the one who fired it and stored it !. IMO it's simply makes sense then you won't have surprises !.

Before annealing you might try the eye tooth softness test. roger