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Accuracy a hundred years ago!
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What is your take on the accuracy of rifles shooting JACKETED bullets back in 1910. A factory made rifle or if money was no object what would a well informed rifleman use? I’m just curious about how folks think about this or if you have ever looked into the subject. If this should be in a different forum let me know and I'll move it.
 
Posts: 808 | Location: Anchorage, Alaska | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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I suspect 100 years ago people were happy with 4 inch groups at 100 yards from iron sights


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10162 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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In my quite grossly underdeveloped opinion, sub MOA bullets and rifles have pretty much always existed, but only with the advent of automated machinery from say, the 1980's onward have they gotten affordable enough for the "casual shooter on a budget", for lack of a better term.

Back when I first started hunting deer in the 70's, my sighting in consisted of hitting a pie plate reliably, whereas nowadays it seems like if a gun can't shoot sub-moa it has some defect. Indeed, I believe many people here started handloading because they were unhappy with factory offerings but "match grade" ammo seems to have always been obtainable, only with much greater personal effort and cost.

You know that when Annie Oakley shot the cigarette out of some Kings mouth it wasn't going to be with store bought ammo, yet I am certain that ammo would shoot some pretty tiny groups in the proper rifle, just like today.


for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside
 
Posts: 7776 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000Reply With Quote
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It would be cool to see an article with pictures on Precision shooters from 100 years ago
 
Posts: 1845 | Registered: 01 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JD Miller:
It would be cool to see an article with pictures on Precision shooters from 100 years ago

That's what I'm working on!

 
Posts: 808 | Location: Anchorage, Alaska | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JD Miller:
It would be cool to see an article with pictures on Precision shooters from 100 years ago


Read FD Mann's book "the bullets flight" for some ideas on what they were getting for groups.
IIRC something like consistent 2" @ 100 was considered a great bench rest rifle (and it was the research into WHY they couldn't do better that was the basis for his research)
 
Posts: 2124 | Location: Whittemore, MI, USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I can still remember when one of the outdoor gun editors would "wring out" a new rifle, if it would shoot 2" groups at 100 yards, it was deemed a deer killing machine.
Bench Rest shooters were a cult unto themselves and any "tricks" they knew, they weren't telling. Now, everybodys written a book and with the internet, the information on how to acchieve accuracy is easily available.
I think they had some excellent shooters and rifles back then but they weren't as common as now.


Aim for the exit hole
 
Posts: 4348 | Location: middle tenn | Registered: 09 December 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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quote:
In his lifetime Pope has done some nearly incredible shooting. Always an
offhand shot, his maxim remains to this day "Stand on your hind legs and shoot
like a man!" He still has the targets of one memorable match fired April 9,
1897 on the Lake Lookout Range, Springfield, Massachusetts. They are the old
"Standard American"--the black 11 inches in diameter and including the 7-ring.
The 3.36-inch ten ring is again divided into 10, 11 and 12 values, for scoring
center shots, much as our present X or V count. Harry that day had tramped
knee-deep
through four miles of unbroken snow to get to the range. The match was to
consist of one hundred shots offhand at two hundred yards. Harry was shooting
a 13 pound rifle, barrel of his own make and a Stevens telescope.

The first string of fifty shots have him a score of 454, which was a chance at
the record. The second fifty were about to equal the first and on his ninth
string of ten Harry scored 89. He sat down to rest. Snow had turned to sleet,
the flags were frozen and did not correctly indicate wind, and darkness was
approaching.
Harry started to fire the last string. There was nothing now to tell him what
the wind was doing, and he could only guess. He called his first shot--a low
ten. It was flagged back. A seven! The wind he could not judge had thrown
him out. Four more shots gave him seven--ten--nine--ten--nine for the
five-shot string. The record seemed lost, unless he could score 95 on this
last 10-shot string, and already he was five down. Five consecutive tens--it
could not be done! But what
followed became shooting history.

Pope loaded and fired his ninety-sixth shot. It was a nipper twelve. The
scorer inserted a plug in the hole. The ninety-seventh drove the plug out.
The ninety-eighth again drove out the plug and the hundredth came one-quarter
inch from the last, scored ten. The two strings were totaled: 917. A new
record had been made. And it still stands unequaled!




read the entire story here


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Hey Michael, Great flick!
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Thanks, These guys were on the cutting edge of accuracy in their day.
 
Posts: 808 | Location: Anchorage, Alaska | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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