Some years past John Christianson ( Seafire) started a spirited exchange on this forum with his experiments and data release on his use of Blue Dot in rifles. If memory serves me one of the intended results was to generate reduced mild recoiling loads that could be used for deer.

This divided the forum into Two or Three groups in heated exchange for some time.

Having recognized some value in this, I played around with the Blue Dot and other similar powders for a number of years ; still am.

I'm not interested in opening that discussion . This is just some more data along those same lines for those who might glean some useful info from it.

Temperature 83 to 90 degrees , 7 to 10 mph wind. Did not clean rifle while at the range. Probably 20 to 30 seconds between shots.

Rifle: .270 Savage Mod., 200.Light barrel Bullet: 130 grain Speer soft Point, Case: Partizan nny. #34 primer, OAL=3.320"

Powder 30 grains H-110, Results: 2210 to 2240 FPS. , clean. mild recoil EZ extraction, barrel got warm after 10 shots. Grouped less than an inch at 50 yds.

Powder 32 grains H-110, Results: 2318 to 2330 FPS. , clean ,soft recoil, Extraction could be felt a little more but really not much. Group less than an inch at 50 yds.

Powder 34 grains H-110, Results 2411 to 2472 FPS. , Primer a little flat., Lift becoming hard. Mild recoil. Group, >inch at 50 yds. Probably a hair over Max for this rifle.

The point of impact increased about an inch between each load.

Powder 24 grain Blue Dot., Results: 1992 to 2103 FPS.,Nice at 200 yds.,mild recoil, barrel hot; had been left in the sun.

Powder, 25 Grains Blue Dot, Results: 2133 to 2171 FPS., a little soot , mild recoil, Deadly at 200 yds.

Powder, 28 grains acc#9, Results: 2248 to 2265 FPS., Slightly flat primer, EZ extraction, Mild recoil. Just great at 200 yds.

All powder levels were checked with a graduated dowel rod to detect irregularities and or double loads where possible. roger

Thanks for the info

Would be very glad to see Blue Dot become available again.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Would be very glad to see Blue Dot become available again.

there were some 4 pounders at the range a couple weeks ago. There's still hope. roger

I am developing loads right now for a silenced 223 Remington.

I have started with Hodgdon HS6 powder, and I am getting extremely good resuls.

I started wth 4 grains this gave me 1096 fps with Bill Brawand 52 grain match bullets.

Accuracy is very good.

8.0 grains - 1880 fps - 0.157" 3 shots at 100 yards

9.5 grains 2130 fps and 0.249"

I do have some some Blue Dot, and will try it too.

Blue Dot:

I missed the old discussion.

Why do people think Blue Dot is no longer available? It's everywhere and still on the burn charts.

https://www.google.com/search?..........0.55DzLw7O9_g

Back in the 90's Alliant had a plant explosion. After they re-established reloader's commented that the new version was a little bit different than the old. Not quite as hot.

Blue Dot is/was intended for shot shells and pressures down around 13,000 psi in shotguns. It migrated over to handgun loading too.

I don't want to rekindle the old, past arguments, which I never saw, so I will only add that Blue Dot isn't the best, or most reliable, or suitable compared to other powders currently available. It won't allow for higher pressures and velocities, in small cases, but it does seem that less powder is consumed.

I'm completely neutral on this one. Anyone who is adventuresome and likes to tinker, and experiment, is certainly entitled to do so without criticism.
____________________________________________

Addendum:

I ran some loads on my internal ballistics calculator using the .223 Remington and .224 Weatherby Magnum.

The .223 has a very limited selection but it works and gives good velocities.

The .224 comes in a surprisingly extensive selection of cases. And quite a selection of bullets.

I ran loads for the .224 Weatherby Magnum, case 38 grains, bullet 27 grains; .257 Weatherby, case 84 grains, bullet 75 grains and .270 Weatherby case 82 grains, bullet 130 grains.

The smaller cases are much more volatile showing rapid pressure spikes whereas the larger cases are much more forgiving

quote:

I don't want to rekindle the old, past arguments,

a very wise decision.....there was no winners!

http://www.gunbot.net/reloading/powder/

Type in "Blue" in the "find on this page" search feature. 0 results. Has been that way for some time. Our regional powder distributor never has any.

I made some calls around to Midway, Alliant and my local dealer.

Blue Dot is still current production. It hasn't been discontinued or obsoleted.

It's essentially in the same boat that all other powers are in presently, scarce and hard to get.

I got an order filled a couple of months ago after waiting for several weeks. The dealer wouldn't put me on a wait list. He told me to just keep calling back. I got lucky just after he received a shipment and got my order filled.

A major part of the problem is the current political atmosphere which I don't want to get into here and now on an international forum.

The reasons that the shortage is so severe is/are that the manufacturers don't want to make major plant upgrade improvements; ammunition is being manufactured now at increasing rates and more and more reloaders are either doing it or resuming it.

Every time the Liberals rattle rockets and make threatening noises gun sales skyrocket and the National Rifle Association has a big rush in new members. I had heard that membership zoomed up from 4 million to 5 million.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Alliant doesn't think the shortage situation will clear up any time soon.

Reports on availability are spotty. Some places improving and some not. Just keep calling your dealer frequently.

The silver lining in the clouds is that we gun owner are growing stronger and more determined with each new attack.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

I don't want to rekindle the old, past arguments,

a very wise decision.....there was no winners!

Not if you regard the entertainment factor! roger

Bartsche:

Say your prayers Amigo>

I'm just glad that you are still among the living.

I ran your data:

270 Savage, 130 grain Speer.

24 grains Blue Dot 65,841 psi

25 grains Blue Dot 71,359 psi

28 grains Blue Dot 90,013 psi



You may want to rethink this adventure !

quote:

Powder, 28 grains acc#9, Results: 2248 to 2265 FPS., Slightly flat primer, EZ extraction, Mild recoil. Just great at 200 yds.

The 28 grain load was of Accurate Arms # 9 powder not Blue Dot.

Blue Dot ranks # 50 on the burn chart. Alliant #9 ranks #57.Pretty fast.

The loading of 28 grains of Accurate Arms No.9 results 90,000 plus psi in a 270 Savage with a 130 grain Sierra bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I am developing loads right now for a silenced 223 Remington.

I have started with Hodgdon HS6 powder, and I am getting extremely good results.


8.0 grains - 1880 fps - 0.157" 3 shots at 100 yards.

Oddly- exactly the same charge I shoot in .40S&W with 165g hollow points. I'd never imagine driving a 223 with it. This could be interesting...

And now it starts.
Don't you know that you could blow you and your rifle up doing this stuff.

It's nice to know that others have really tried it.
It shoots real good in the 204 ruger but i won't tell how much powder i used so i won't get a lecture.

Then there is the 223 and the 8mm and others.

quote:

Originally posted by wetibbe:
Bartsche:

Say your prayers Amigo>

I'm just glad that you are still among the living.

I ran your data:

270 Savage, 130 grain Speer.

24 grains Blue Dot 65,841 psi

25 grains Blue Dot 71,359 psi

28 grains Blue Dot 90,013 psi




You may want to rethink this adventure !

Didn't go to 28 grains of blue dot. but at 25 grains there was zero evidence of danger. Remember the primer and the BRASS case are similar to a fuse in an electric circuit. Failure will be of the case before any steel lets go. I have taken actions to steel failure pressures just to have the experience. Safety depends on your experience and how you handle the experiment. Some folks depend on all they read. Some folks go out and find the truth first hand but only after acquiring all the relevant info on hand.

Let's say that your 71,3559 psi is correct. How does that present itself? What is ,if fact, the failure mode? Your book or program isn't going to tell you. You really have to get out of the twilight zone and unveil the the we beast. Safely go where few have gone before. roger

Never thought about H-110,might have to try some.

Just a quick reminder. I'm passing a lot of info along to my Grandson !

My internal ballistic software is showing that 28 grains of AA No. 9 with a 130 grain Sierra 1820 gives 2,692 fps. So it's in the ballpark of 400 fps faster than your results.

So what's the disparity? The software is pretty darned explicit. Maybe differences in the cases and maybe the chamber ? Little changes in components can result in some BIG differences in results.

Here's some other date:

28 grains IMR 4046, 25,365 psi, 2,118 fps.

28 grains IMR 3031, 27,439 psi, 2,274 fps

37 grains IMR 4046, 52,657 psi, 2,742 fps

IMR 3031 ranks 79 on the burn chart and IMR 4064 #95.

I won't get sucked into the old argument, which I know nothing about. And I'll reiterate that much of what I post is not for the salty old dogs with worlds of experience. It's largely for the novices and young guys.

I cross checked some of my calculations with some other load data on websites and not surprisingly it was really close, sometimes within 20 to 30 fps. I also collaborated with some shooters who tested load on the range with chronograps and it too came out remarkably close. At times 10 to 15 fps.

I first started hunting on my Granda's farm when I was about 8 years old. I've been hunting and shooting for 7 decades. I quit my shooting club due dues increases that doubled and because they sold off some of the properties and club houses where I hunted. *( I still, have some indoor 100 yard ranges that charge by the hour ). I hung it up, no longer shoot or hunt and I'm passing all of my guns, reloading equipment to family members. About 1/2 has already changed hands.

quote:

My internal ballistic software is showing that 28 grains of AA No. 9 with a 130 grain Sierra 1820 gives 2,692 fps. So it's in the ballpark of 400 fps faster than your results. So what's the disparity? The software is pretty darned explicit.

Your computer is providing what the program thinks will happen and the OP's rifle is providing what did happen, once again proving that reloading is a "one gun at a time" kind of science. The rest of the data sources are more like "guidelines really."

Absolutely, positively spot on.

I couldn't agree more.

quote:

Originally posted by wetibbe:
Just a quick reminder. I'm passing a lot of info along to my Grandson !

My internal ballistic software is showing that 28 grains of AA No. 9 with a 130 grain Sierra 1820 gives 2,692 fps. So it's in the ballpark of 400 fps faster than your results.

wetibbe,If you're interested I can E-mail you some of Seafire's data on blue dot and you can run that through your program and compare results. Need your E-Mail address.
roger

Roger:

wetibbe@msn.com

FYI I spent the morning re-seeding my lawn and I am now twiddling my thumbs and playing with my cat !!

quote:

Originally posted by wetibbe:
Roger:

wetibbe@msn.com

FYI I spent the morning re-seeding my lawn and I am now twiddling my thumbs and playing with my cat !!

Did you get the E-Mail?

I was always surprised at the vehemence of the BlueDot arguments.

I checked out some of Seafire's data, starting on the lower end. My chronographed results were pretty much in line with his, and well within the normal variation found between two different barrels and chambers. Seafire did push his BlueDot load velocities up near those of "full power" loads with conventional (slower burning) rifle powders. I had no desire to go there as I was more interested in moderately reduced loads for economical and quieter shooting. I was always gratified at how low the velocity spreads were with BlueDot in this application, as well as how good the accuracy was.

The only two cartridges in which I use BlueDot are the .223 and the .22 Hornet. I like the BlueDot loads which push a 50 grain Hornady at around 2850 fps in the .223 and in a .22 Hornet they push a 35 grain V-Max at around 2450 fps (the latter being not much above the power of a .22 WMR). Barrels stay cool for extended shot strings, accuracy is more than acceptable, the report is mild, and small game dies.

Despite all of the hand-wringing and predictions of dire results, I've never found these moderate BlueDot loads to be anything other than quite docile and boringly consistent. The same thing can't be said of every attempt at a "reduced" load in modern centerfires.