Anyone seen any primer tests on these three?

Russ

TAYLOR,
I've not used the Winchester primer, but I have used both the CCI 250s and the Federal 215s. I'm of the opinion that standard primers will do the job with any powder with a burn rate slower than IMR-4831, in rimless cases. An exception is some of the ball powders. Magnum primers do help with H-380 or slower burn rate powders, especially for loads that will be used in cold temperatures. Belted cases with the capacity of the .300 Win.Mag. using one of the 4831 powders and light to midweight bullets have worked fine with the CCI 250 primers. With the 7mm Rem. Mag. size cases and larger, using heavy for calibre bullets AND powders with a burn rate slower than H-4831, the Fed. #215 primer comes into its own.
I had better results in the .300 WM with H-1000, 180 grain bullets with the #215. once I stepped down to the 165 grain bullet, neither H-1000 or the 215s would do the job. CCI #250s and H-4831 was a much more efficient load. In answer to your question, the Fed 215 is hotter than the CCI 250s. I hope that this is of some help. Good luck.

[ 06-22-2002, 04:19: Message edited by: BigBob ]

It is the concensus that the Federal 215 is the hottest LR primer on the commercial market...

Russel, I have the article in one of the magazines. I'm not sure but I think it was in RifleShooter. I have seen it in another article but can't remember where. Well after saying all of that, the WLRM is the hottest except for a Federal primer that in not available to the public. fws

"Hottest" doesn't tell the story. I've seen several articles and tests, including time delay photographs, and none of the articles I saw agreed. Besides the larger "flame" or flash, the question of heat and duration enter into the equation. On article some years back showed the Remington 9 1/2M to be the "hottest". It was accompanied by photographs. I believe that was in Guns & Ammo 10 years ago or more. Either Handloader or Shooting Times also had one with pictures which showed the Winchester WLRM to be the hottest. I believe Precision Shooting also had an article in the last two or three years and theirs showed the Federal to be "hottest" based on duration of the flame. I tend to use mostly Federals and of those I largely use the 210M's in most of my hunting guns including all the belted magnums I shoot. I've used that primer down to 20 degrees below zero and have never had a misfire nor any accuracy problems.

As I said the Federal makes the "Hottest", which is the 216, but it is not available to the public. fws

I believe you can find information on several primers...right here in this forum. Scroll down the page to accuratereloading.com, and look for the test on primers/accuracy on the "home" page. Don't know which primer is hotter, but here is the information on primer/handload combinations:

http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html

[ 06-22-2002, 20:39: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ]

When I am developing a load I will either use Fed 210's or 215's depending on the case. Once I have achieved the "best" load I will try various primers to see if I obtain any accuracy advantage. While doing this I will fire them through my chrony and sometimes I will see a variation of 100 fps in loads just by changing primers...very interesting...try it.

Does anybody know if there is a difference between the Federal 210 and 210M regarding this aspect?

It's my understanding that the primers from Federal designated M, come of the same line with the others but have an additional step of quality control. They would therefore be more uniform in some aspect and therefore more consistent and repeatable.

I read an article about primers; I think it was in Guns & Ammo. I coppied it, so I can look it up. But I remember they said that the HOTTEST primer available to reloaders was the WLRM. The Fed 216 is hotter but not available to reloaders yet as someone said. But I wanted the hottest primer to fire-up ball powder in a large case .458 win. in cold weather. So I now use the WLRM primers. I had a problem with the CCI250 not ignighting 70 grains (small charge) of AA2230c ball powder at 20 degrees F. in the .458 case. I could look up the article if you like.

Johnny B:

That would be great. If you don't have it on electrons, I could give you a FAX number if you would be kind enough to send it.

As a matter of fact, I need another brick of WLRMs... I'm out.

Russ

The Federal 215 is the hottest primer available to us handloaders...ask any double rifle shooter or better yet load your double rifle with any other primer....

I surely wish Federal would sell the 216 primer and it ticks me that they do not and I suspect it is because some ignorant bean counting sob decided it would hurt double rifle ammo sales, which is just pure bunk......

What it does is make customers mad and they go buy other primers and good for them.

Goedenavond, Guus. According to the article printed in Precision Magazine, a couple of years back, the 210M is a good bit milder than the 210, on a par with the REm 9 1/2, and the WLR.

Russel, I have a copy of the p/s article (sept. '99) I pulled from the web a while back. Email me a fax #, and I'll send it tomorrow.

The P.S. article tested two factors of "hotness". One, how far does the bullet get pushed into the bore by the primer alone, and two, what was the velocity, and maximum pressure from a test barrel, given a charge of powder of either 54.5 gr. 2015BR or 53 gr. AA2700 in a '06 case with a 168 matchking.

By ALL THREE measures, the WLRM was the most potent. In a couple of measurements, the 210 was actually the second most potent. FWIW, Dutch.

Russell:
Sure, I will fax the article to you. Please post your fax# or email it to me. It is a 4 page article that appeared in the Petersen's Rifle Shooter February 2001 issue by M.L. McPherson. In their HandLoads section the article was titled Choosing and using primers, Part II. I do not have part one. The article was worth me keeping it on file. It states, "Note that, contrary to what is often stated, Federal's 215 is not the hottest handloader primer. By every measure, that honor goes to Winchester's WLRM." I do not know if this article can be found on the internet, but I can fax it today as soon as I get your number. I will see an email sooner that the post.

Johnny:

E-mail sent.

I'd sent you a private message from this website last night with the FAX information, but I think the site was under heavy traffic because I did not get a confirmation of the message being sent.

Thanks for the information, I sure appreciate it.

When you send the FAX (after 3:30 P.M. Central Time, please), just mark it to the attention of me.

Again, thanks very much.

Russ

Fed 215 br. Created in 1957 by Federal for Roy Weatherby's Then new nad cavernous 378 WBY!

Pete, (sounding a bit like a politician) asked:

the question I want to answer is

"whether you really mean "hottest", or whether what you really want to know is "the most consistent"?

I don't load anything other than Federal 210 Match in any of my rifles.

The gun shp were I shop told me the rem 9 1/2m was the hottest primer. I have bought a pack of federal 215's for my impending .585 as I was told there the only ones to use, I have been using 9 1/2 m rem primers in my .416 with no problems as it took a while to get the federals.

I tend to believe that these primers change lot to lot.

A test done by Lost River Ballistics on primers also showed this. In the 2nd run of tests conducted, the CCI 200, yes the CCI 200, was the hottest during testing.

I buy several bricks of the same lot number of primer and 8lb. powder caddies to get around this. Yet I have noticed that they have now changed the shape of the Barnes bullets I use.

Bob 338, My brick of Federal 210m primers worked well in only one of my rifles. Go figure, now I have a double lifetime supply of this primer.
The primer I use most is the CCI 250 and the Rem 7&1/2. I might not be as lucky when I purchase new bricks. I even noticed a change when I switched to a new brick(different lot #) of WSP for my 9's.

In primers I have noticed no consistancy so to speak.---------Chainsaw

Good, you guys that believe a Winchester primer is hotter than a Fed 215 must not shoot double rifles...The Fed 215 is the hottest from an ignition stand point in my opinnion...I believe you source is full of bunk to contend that a 210 is hotter than a 210M...Thats not what Federal sez.

Ray,

Reference Precision Shooting Magazine, Sept. '99.

If you have better numbers, I for one would love to see them. FWIW, Dutch.

I have a shelf in my reloading room full of every primer produced in the last 30 years. They all gather dust now. The reason is I now use only Federal 210M or 215M. Yep even the older regular 210's and 215's are there with them. I have never had a problem of any kind from a primer of any kind, however accuracy with hunting bullets is my thing and that is why I use only the two mentioned above. With them I can usually gain a one hole group with a rifle, three shot groups with Magnum chamberings and 5 shot groups with standard chamberings, if I can't the rifle is gone. It may take me 2-300 rounds to determine that. The Federal primers were always the most consistent and I simply decided to take that variable out of the equation, and use only them. Good shooting.

[ 07-01-2002, 20:08: Message edited by: phurley ]