Read an Article about 30-30 American brass (discontinued)stating it used a small rifle primer with small flash hole and was used when there was a PPC brass shortage.

Would appreciate any info or comments.

BRH

IIRC, it was used to make a different case which was designed to replace the PPC...not to make PPC brass from. The theory at the time was that the major advantage of the PPC was the use of a small rifle primer.

At about the same time, Remington brought out .308 brass with small primer pockets, which was used to form the .22 BR, the 6 BR, and the 7 BR. None of them dependably shot as well or better than the PPC, so it became pretty obvious that a variety of factors MIGHT be in play other than just the small primer pocket....and so the perceived need for the .30 American waned.

You can still find believers in every theory about what creates accuracy, including all those about cases designs. The truth may be though that nobody knows absolutely for sure. (Though many think they do, on the internet.....)

The 30 American was a small primer, small flash hole case intended to be used to make Hunter Bench Rest (HBR) cases that had previously been made from standard 30-30 brass. The most popular of those cases, and probably the only one still being used in competition is the 30 Aardvark.

HBR is a score Benchrest discipline and the rules require a case capacity equal to the 30-30.

A special run was made by Federal and although it's been years since it was made you can still find a box for sale now and then. I recently found 2 full boxes.

Aside from being used in Benchrest, it has no relation to the PPC or BR.

A.C. is correct. If you think case shape plays a role in accuracy you just need to look at the 30 Aardvark. You won't find a more ungainly looking cartridge but it is supremely accurate. I'll did thru my photos and post a pic.

Aardvark on right. That's another HBR cartridge on the left - the 30 Doggie.



Ray

Alberta Canuck & Cheechako,
Thank you very much for the info and the clarification.
It is interesting how things come and go in the reloading world.
I am going to look for some of the brass to buy mostly out of curiosity.
Thank you both again.

berylh

Ray - Your answer is better than mine...i.e., more specific to his question.

One thing in your post I'd like to amend just a little though. It is the following:

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:

HBR is a score Benchrest discipline and the rules require a case capacity equal to the 30-30.

IIRC, that might be better said as the rules require "at least as much case capacity as the .30-30". Again, IIRC, it still meets the rules to have more capacity than the .30-30 if you want. I.e., the case capacity does not have to "equal" that of the .30-30, just be that large or larger. Si?

No big deal, I just don't want him mistakenly telling somebody, someday, that all HBR cases must have the same capacity as the .30-30 case.

Best wishes,

AC

AC

You are right. In fact, the rules give a number. In NBRSA it says, "case capacity of not less than 45.5 grains of water (30-30 capacity) is required." I think IBS is the same, or maybe, 45 grains.

It's a very arbitrary number but I suppose they had to have some way of setting a capacity minimum and nothing does it better than a number. It's one of those rules that no one has ever seen enforced. If you are shooting a case that "looks about the right size" then you're OK. In the early years most guys checked the water capacity of their case just to be sure they were OK but I'm sure that today there are many of them who are shooting 40, or 42, or 44 grain capacity cases too.

The whole idea behind the rule was that HBR was supposed to be a "Hunter" class and the 30-30 just seemed like the typical hunting cartridge.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
AC

You are right. In fact, the rules give a number. In NBRSA it says, "case capacity of not less than 45.5 grains of water (30-30 capacity) is required." I think IBS is the same, or maybe, 45 grains.

It's a very arbitrary number but I suppose they had to have some way of setting a capacity minimum and nothing does it better than a number. It's one of those rules that no one has ever seen enforced. If you are shooting a case that "looks about the right size" then you're OK. In the early years most guys checked the water capacity of their case just to be sure they were OK but I'm sure that today there are many of them who are shooting 40, or 42, or 44 grain capacity cases too.

The whole idea behind the rule was that HBR was supposed to be a "Hunter" class and the 30-30 just seemed like the typical hunting cartridge.

Ray

Yeh, and like in every other sport, there were always guys who liked to "cheat legally". There were quite a few who at first tried to claim that the 6 PPC WAS their deer hunting cartridge and so should be allowed, though a couple of them I knew personally had never hunted a deer in their lives. But they still wanted to have an advantage other than skill over their competitors, by arguing a technicality. The rule, as you posted it, made that particular form of game-playing grounds for a disqualification.

I had never seen the Aardvark before. It appears to have the same shoulder placement as the 7mm International Rimmed.

I have several guns built around the 30-30 case in both conventional and improved format. My favorite of the lot is a 20" Contender barrel in 7mm Bullberry, which is nothing more than a 7mm Int'l Rimmed with the unnecessarily long neck trimmed back to give a case length of 1.75". I've taken quite a bit of game with it, including 2 nice hogs just before dark last night.

bobby tomec,
When you shorten to 1.75 do you anneal the brass?
I'm not clear- are you using 30-30 brass?

I need to shorten to 1.61 and since this will remove most of the neck brass I wondered abouy annealing. The resizing will be for a .264 bullet.

Yhanks, BRH/Beryl H.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:Yeh, and like in every other sport, there were always guys who liked to "cheat legally". There were quite a few who at first tried to claim that the 6 PPC WAS their deer hunting cartridge and so should be allowed, though a couple of them I knew personally had never hunted a deer in their lives. But they still wanted to have an advantage other than skill over their competitors, by arguing a technicality. The rule, as you posted it, made that particular form of game-playing grounds for a disqualification.

AC

IBS has taken care of that situation with their "Varmint For Score" (VFS) class. I've never shot it because it is an Eastern states thing but I think they allow any cartridge and any scope power. IOW, a Benchrest rifle.

The HBR rules have been changed a lot over the years and while you are still restricted to a 30-30 type case capacity and a 6X scope, the rifles used no longer resemble a hunting rifle as you and I know it. They are simply another type of Benchrest rifle.

Now, of course, many shooters are saying that we need a "factory class". You know, a class where you use a "hunting type" rifle. And so the circle continues.

Ray

I have never annealed for the 7mm Bullbery round, and some of my brass is now on its 24th firing.

I either start with new 30-30 brass or else 7mm US (also from new 30-30) to eliminate trimming.

Thanks for the helpful info.



BRH/ Beryl H.