Bullet first or powder first?

04 December 2001, 08:36

John Frazer

When you are working with a new gun, do you decide first which bullet you want to use and then try different powders? (If so, how many powders would you try at a time?)

Or, do you pick one of the "standard" powders for the cartridge (e.g., IMR 4350 in the .30-06) and try a bunch of different bullets? If so, how many bullets will you try?

John

04 December 2001, 08:41

<Infidel>

Bullet.

04 December 2001, 09:23

<Bill>

Second vote for Bullet

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www.rifleshooter.com

04 December 2001, 09:38

Atkinson

Bullet

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

04 December 2001, 11:26

Dutch

You know, I pick the bullet before I even pick the gun...... Dutch.

04 December 2001, 11:28

Zero Drift

Bullet

04 December 2001, 11:39

<Don Martin29>

Dutch beat me to what I wanted to say.

Most of the time full loading density is considered desireable. But it's not mandatory.

So for the 30-06 you mentioned I use IMR 4350. I have no problems with this powder. I tried ball powders and I am staying away from them but I have a open mind about it.

04 December 2001, 11:57

<danev2>

Bullet
Hit the basic bullets first, then start playing with exotics

04 December 2001, 12:07

beemanbeme

I don't agree with danve. if it won't shoot with a generic bt or flat based bullet (horn, sie, spe, etc) sell the gun. If you take any brand of 30-06 out of the box and clean it and tighten it up and load a cartridge with 55grs of 4350 under a hornady 165gr flat based bullet, it should shoot close to an inch-inch and a half. it may come to shoot better with another bullet and/or powder but if it won't shoot reasonably well with that basic load, you may have a long road ahead of you if you insist on keeping the gun.

04 December 2001, 12:11

<Daryl Elder>

Bullet.

04 December 2001, 12:12

<Al Smith>

Bullet

04 December 2001, 12:22

<gruvinbass>

Bullet

04 December 2001, 12:30

Paul H

Bullet, bullet, and bullet. The bullet does the work, so figure what bullet you want to use. Once you've figured that out, then you can narrow it down to a few powders.

As far as selecting a powder, or powders, research all you can of published data to see what powders are recomended. At least in my experience, the recomended powders have always performed well, both in accuracy and velocity.

My quick and dirty load regime is to pick a single bullet and powder. I seat the bullets .025" off the lands if possible. I work up to max loads in 1/2 to 1 gr increments, depending on the size of case, and chronograph and compare groups. If one load shines, I'll repeat that load, and go 1/4 to 1/2 gr higher then lower (provided its not a max) and this will confirm its a good load, and see if minor changes don't further tune it.

If the groups don't seem to vary much, but are so so, I'll go with what appears to be a max load, and try various bullet seating depths, say .030", .020", .010" and .005". This will show me which direction to go in bullet seating, or if it has much affect.

I've typically been able to find a good load for a gun in 2-3 range sessions with this technique. Remember, only change one variable at a time when working up loads, or you'll spend alot more time and $, and not know what changed what. With a single bullet, powder and primer, changing charge weight and bullet seating depth is plenty to worry about, and typically all that is needed to make a good load. Occasionally you'll have a combo that won't want to shoot, which is sometimes the gun, but often times an attempt to make a combo work that consists of either an inapropriate bullet and or powder.

04 December 2001, 12:32

Rob1SG

Bullet for the game I'm hunting.

04 December 2001, 14:37

Magnum Mike

Bullet!

Most of my shooting is target or varminting. I will start with the bullet .010 of the lands and work up the load in .5 grain increments, looking for groups that show consistency. After i find one that looks good, i start working in .1 grain increments from there until i find the winner. I choose powders based on loading density and velocity (and pressure info if available). I pick a primary and a back up powder. So far i have only had to try 2 different powders on one really picky rifle.

My $.02

mike

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NRA Life Member

America, Love it or LEAVE IT!

04 December 2001, 14:57

D Humbarger

bullet

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NRA Life member

04 December 2001, 16:54

<Paul Dustin>

Bullet.

04 December 2001, 17:56

Saeed

John,

Bullet always come first.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

04 December 2001, 17:56

ricciardelli

Bullet

04 December 2001, 18:45

Mark

Yeah, chalk me up for the bullet first too. Of course, once I decide on the bullet then I'll usually reach for the fullest powder can and try to find it in the loading tables. Yup, real scientific-like!

04 December 2001, 19:01

<holtz>

Bullet!

05 December 2001, 01:31

<Gary Rihn>

You almost *need* to pick the bullet first. As for "standard" powders, what's the standard powder for a 30-06 shooting 125 gr bullets? What's the standard for shooting 220's? Same caliber, much different powder rerquirements.

05 December 2001, 02:14

John Frazer

My thinking was that it would be more time-efficient to choose a general weight and type of bullet, choose a powder appropriate for that bullet weight, and then try it with bullets A, B and C.

For instance, I know my Model 70 shoots well with IMR 4350 behind a 180 gr. Hornady Spire Point. If I want more penetration, I would be willing to use a Partition, Partition Gold, Grand Slam, Fail Safe, or whatever. I just think the bullet is a bigger accuracy variable than the powder, perhaps?

Or have you seen, for instance, a rifle that will shoot a Spire Point well with IMR 4350 but a Partition only with H4350?

John

05 December 2001, 07:59

<Gary Rihn>

quote:
Originally posted by John Frazer:
I just think the bullet is a bigger accuracy variable than the powder, perhaps?

I'd have to agree there.

I generally pick my bullet based on expected use, then look for a powder. Example... for varmints, I'll usually go with a Nosler Ballistic Tip, for targets I pick Sierra Match Kings, etc. It's not very often that I have to go beyond my first choice, or maybe two, before settling on the bullet. I usually know in advance what weight I will be shooting. THEN, I can start looking at powders, seating depth, etc.

05 December 2001, 08:12

Terry Blauwkamp

BULLET;

05 December 2001, 20:34

<Roger 4>

Ditto as Paul H. said,,,,Bullet,,and then only one variable at a time,,,,,,,,,

06 December 2001, 02:09

<Reloader66>

Bullet, then the most compatible powder for the cartridge your shooting. Example 30-06 125 to 150 gr. bullet IMR4064,IMR4350,Rel-19
165 to 180 gr. bullet IMR4350, REL-19. As with all rifles there are exceptions to the rule. I own one of those exception to the rules rifles in the 30-06 chambering. It likes REL-15 and IMR4895 powder best, and will shoot fantastic groups with both powders..