I am looking for a load for an iron sighted 308 ruger 77 RSI. i want to use it as a brush gun with 220 gr RN bullets.
prefered powder is H4895.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
I am looking for a load for an iron sighted 308 ruger 77 RSI. i want to use it as a brush gun with 220 gr RN bullets.
prefered powder is H4895.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

they only list up to a 200.

220 grain loads in a 308 will be a rare duck. The 308 doesn't lend itself to such a load due to the bullet size and a relatively limited powder capacity.

In a .30-06, you'd be at the outer limit with a 220 grain at 2500 fps. Nosler, for example, doesn't list 220 grain loads in .308 for anything smaller than the .30-06.

Some of the specialized reloading sights on the web might have what you are seeking, however.

LWD

well i used hornady 220 grain round nose in my 308 with 414 good pig round i shot a sika stag in the rutt he was 90 yards stone dead i have grouped them half inch at 100 yards fps around 2250

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:
220 grain loads in a 308 will be a rare duck. The 308 doesn't lend itself to such a load due to the bullet size and a relatively limited powder capacity.

Yeah, but the 30/40 220 and the 303 215 killed a mess of game so any load that delivers velocities on the high side of 2000 fps ought to suffice at reasonable ranges. Data of unverified veracity can be found here http://www.reloadammo.com/308load.htm

Verify that your rifle has a 1:10 twist, not the standard 1:12 used in most 308's. The slower twist may not stabilize heavy bullets.

quote:

Yeah, but the 30/40 220 and the 303 215 killed a mess of game so any load that delivers velocities on the high side of 2000 fps ought to suffice at reasonable ranges.

That is certainly true, but it was the best they could do back then---either bullets or velocity.

Is there a reason you want that? A 150 gr TSX would be a much more versatile and effective load.

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:

quote:

Yeah, but the 30/40 220 and the 303 215 killed a mess of game so any load that delivers velocities on the high side of 2000 fps ought to suffice at reasonable ranges.

That is certainly true, but it was the best they could do back then---either bullets or velocity.

Is there a reason you want that? A 150 gr TSX would be a much more versatile and effective load.

LWD

i want an anchor load for hunting in very thick brush. i want to bust down bones and leave a definative trail. i could care less if the round exceeds 2K MV.
i want to hear the "THWACK".

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
I am looking for a load for an iron sighted 308 ruger 77 RSI. i want to use it as a brush gun with 220 gr RN bullets.
prefered powder is H4895.

.308 Winchester:
H-4895 37 grains 220 grain Hornady 2224'/sec at 48400 CUP

How's that for THWACK (max load listed)

More THWACK can be had with H-4350 46 grains yields 2,369'/sec. and 45,900 CUP

Now if you want really serious THWACK you can load 250 grain bullets with 45 grains of H-4831 at 2,100 feet/sec and 47,000 CUP.

That will probably shoot thru the deer lengthwise and then some!

max load per an older hodgdon manual is 35.5 for h4895. starting is 33.5

quote:

The 308 doesn't lend itself to such a load due to the bullet size and a relatively limited powder capacity.

BULLSHIT! If the 30-40 Krag was once considered a better elk cartridge than the 30-06 (It was due to bullet construct of the time.) then why couldn't the .308 Win. at 2200 to 2300 FPS not be as least as effective, or even betetr than the Krag was during that earlier time frame.
The following load data is pressure tested and is from an earlier copy of the One Book/One Caliber series for the .308 Winchester. The latest copy I saw has dropped the 220 gr. bullet data, to their shame IMHO.
The starting load for Winchester's W-760 shows 42.0 gr. for 2177 FPS at 42,000 C.U.P. and the maximum load is 44.0 gr. of W-760 for 2296 FPS at 46,900 C.U.P. MY Winchester M70 in .308 with a 22" barrel showed a velocity of 2310 FPS witht hat max load of W-760 (yes I worked up to it) and accuracy was amazing with .375" to .50" groups. I used the Sierra 220 gr. round nose bullet FYI.
Now I can attest to that data being good. I see no reason why, in a Ruger RSI you couldn't at least reach 2200 FPS and maybe even 2250 FPS with the Sierra bullet and that top load, working up from the starting load, of course.
I really get sick and tired of hearing all that gun writer BS that the .308 is no good with 200 and 220 gr. bullets or that a .308 or 30-06 with a 1 in 12" twist barrel won't shoot 220 gr bullets. My M70 .308 has a 1 in 12" twist and I damn well don't call .375 to .50" groups lousy by any means. My custom 30-06 built by the late Cal Albright has a 1 in 12" twist and it too shoots excellent groups with 220 gr. round nose bullets. So another gunwriter BS myth is shot down in flames.
Now, to be perfectly honest, I have only done this with the Sierra round nose bullet. I have not tried the same design bullet by Hornady and results may be different. Also, the Ruger RSI has a 1 in 10" twist barrel. In theory, that should stabilize the heavy bullets even better than the 1 in 12" twist in my Winchester. it could also cause pressures to be slightly higher.
My Ruger RSI shoots the 165 gr. Speer Hot-core at 2550 FPS and the same load in the Winchester does 2610 FPS. Would the velocity in the Winchester be higher if the twist was 1 in 10" I dunno. Probably, but not by much. Maybe I'll try the loads in my RSI and see what the results are, although that rifle is the most finicky damn gun I've ever owned.
As you requested data for H-4895 this is from the same load book.
Start: 34.0 gr. 2014 FPS 36,000 C.U.P.
Maximum: 37.0 gr. 2224 FPS 48,400 C.U.P.
Paul B.

KSTEPHENS
The 308 is one of my favorite and most used hunting cartridges.

The only way to know for sure if 220gr bullets will stabilize in your 308 is to load some of them and give them a try.

I have never loaded heavier than 180 in the 308.

If I wanted the ultimate premier "thumper" in 308 I would do the following, baised on my use of these bullets in the 9,3x74R and my 450/400.

I would use Hawk bullets with the .035jacket in either 200 or 220gr weight, which ever shot best.

The Hawk bullets have given me 99&44/100% drop to the shot results on deer wild pigs and impala [one pig ran about 25 feet].

There seems to be something about the "thumping" power of bullets with a SD of .300 and up with a velocity of @2100 to 2300fps.

The old British Dwell Theory, may have some truth to it.

Just wondered if anyone has shot gas check lead bullets of 220 or 250 grain in the 308? Personally I have a 7400 remington in 308. Its funny because I get the best groups from 110 grain fmjs in 307 dia with an obsolete powder AA 2500.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:

quote:

The 308 doesn't lend itself to such a load due to the bullet size and a relatively limited powder capacity.

BULLSHIT! If the 30-40 Krag was once considered a better elk cartridge than the 30-06 (It was due to bullet construct of the time.) then why couldn't the .308 Win. at 2200 to 2300 FPS not be as least as effective, or even betetr than the Krag was during that earlier time frame.Paul B.

ahhh- -OK, Paul roger

You would probably get better results driving a 165 grain monometal FN to much higher speeds. If you wait for about 3.287 minutes after I post this ALF will come along and tell you why.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
You would probably get better results driving a 165 grain monometal FN to much higher speeds.

Them's some mighty pretty bullets, but not all F&G regs allow solids for big game...more's the pity. Good hunting!

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
I am looking for a load for an iron sighted 308 ruger 77 RSI. i want to use it as a brush gun with 220 gr RN bullets.
prefered powder is H4895.

There isn't much data for the 220 in a .308 Win. But I have found that the1/12" twist WILL stabilize a 220 ROUNDNOSE, at least the Sierra and Hornady versions! I used to use the 220-grain Hornady round-nose in my .308 Win. pre-64 M70 Featherweight that had a 1/12" twist. My load was 48 grains of Norma MRP1. This load shot quite accurately at short ranges. (Never tried it over 200 yards.)

MV was 2300 FPS-this was a great short-range deer load. Never had one even move after being hit with it.....

OK I'll ask: what kind of game will you need a 220gr. bullet in a .308. Brush??? Forget it . Long bullets deflect more in brush than short fat ones. Wahhh!!! roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
OK I'll ask: what kind of game will you need a 220gr. bullet in a .308. Brush??? Forget it . Long bullets deflect more in brush than short fat ones. Wahhh!!! roger

I wonder it that is really correct? IIRC, Al Miller did a test shooting various bullets through thick brush and that long skinny 160 gr. bullet from the 6.4x54 Mannlicher did the best of all.
When I used to hunt the rain forest of Northwest California up by Rockport, my choice in the 30-06 was the 170 gr. 30-30 bullet loaded to about 2400 estimated. If a deer ran more than about 25 yards in that stuff, you lost him.
Looks like what the fellow's problem is, is that most of his shot are going to be Texas heart shots whether he likes it or not and penetration with as little meat damage as possible is what he's looking for. The big controversy stems, I think, from all the BS that the .308 is useless with 220 gr. bullets because all the "egg-spurts" in the gun rags said so.
I think what we're looking here is a specialized load for a specific purpose.
Paul B.

Question was asked about 220 gr GC bullets in .308W. I've shot 218 gr 311284s in 10 and 12" twist .308Ws. The 10" twist barrel gave acceptable (2moa) accuracy up through 1900 fps. The 12" twist barrel gave the same 2 MOA accuracy up through 2100 fps. I was using old 4831 back then. I've also shot 220 gr Hornadys back then (mid '70s) up through 2200+ fps (actually chronographed with Oehler M10 w/M61 Skyscreens) with good accuracy out to 200 yards. I was also developing an elk load for going into pole patches. I never shot an elk with that load as I finished building my Siamese 450-400-70 (45-70) and it became my "pole patch" rifle.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
OK I'll ask: what kind of game will you need a 220gr. bullet in a .308. Brush??? Forget it . Long bullets deflect more in brush than short fat ones. Wahhh!!! roger

I wonder it that is really correct? IIRC, Al Miller did a test shooting various bullets through thick brush and that long skinny 160 gr. bullet from the 6.4x54 Mannlicher did the best of all.

That's interesting, Paul and may well be true. My memory may be a little off but it seems to recollect Bob Hutton in an early issue of Guns and Ammo doing a dowel rod test and finding longer for caliber bullets loose their stability easier than the shorts when encountering an obstruction. Right or wrong???roger

quote:

My memory may be a little off but it seems to recollect Bob Hutton in an early issue of Guns and Ammo doing a dowel rod test and finding longer for caliber bullets loose their stability easier than the shorts when encountering an obstruction. Right or wrong???roger

Bob Hutton? Now that's going back a ways. I sem to remember him writing something along those lines as well as someone in an American Rifleman article as well. I think even Bob Hagel might have dome one too.
I'm of the thought that no matter what you shoot through heavy brush, the odds are it might not go where you want it too.
The only thing all this to do about shooting a .308 Win. with 220 gr. bullets is, not only can it be done, but somewhat reasonably decent velocities are attainable.
I once built a 30-06 specifically to shoot cast bullets, so ordered a barrel with a 1 in 12" twist which is recommended for that purpose. One day, I read where some "egg-spurt" wrote in a gun rag that they would not stabilize 220 gr. bullets. Being a curiouis sort, I worked up some loads and not only was there no sign of instability, they were downright accurate. I even wrote the individual about my experiments and mailed him the targets. I got back a nice letter saying he stood corrected ad nauseum. A few years later, he does another article and in that one hints that maybe I was not quite truthful. I guess one could show him in person all that went into setting up the experiment and he'd still call someone a liar.
I guess it would be the same thing about using 220 gr. RNs in the .308. After all, the "egg=spurts" say it won't work, there fore it won't work. IIRC, some scientists once said it was impossible for the Bumblebee to fly, yet it does.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
OK I'll ask: what kind of game will you need a 220gr. bullet in a .308. Brush??? Forget it . Long bullets deflect more in brush than short fat ones. Wahhh!!! roger

I wonder it that is really correct? IIRC, Al Miller did a test shooting various bullets through thick brush and that long skinny 160 gr. bullet from the 6.4x54 Mannlicher did the best of all.

That's interesting, Paul and may well be true. My memory may be a little off but it seems to recollect Bob Hutton in an early issue of Guns and Ammo doing a dowel rod test and finding longer for caliber bullets loose their stability easier than the shorts when encountering an obstruction. Right or wrong???roger

There is no NEED for a 220-grain bullet in a .308 Win. But again, what has NEED got to do with anything!!

As to being deflected by brush-if you shoot a long-for-caliber bullet such as the 160 gr. in the 6.5mm, or the 220 in the .308, just how susceptible to deflection it will be, on average, (ALL bullets are subject to being deflected in brush!!) depends on how fast it is rotating. Those that are rotating faster tend to be harder to START deflection due to their significant gyroscopic effect. BUT, once they dive off course, they are likely to deviate from their original course by a considerable amount. Maybe even more than a more slowly rotating, shorter projectile.

The moral is,of course, that they ain't no sech thing as a TRUE brush-bucking bullet!

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
There is no NEED for a 220-grain bullet in a .308 Win. But again, what has NEED got to do with anything!!

The moral is,of course, that they ain't no sech thing as a TRUE brush-bucking bullet!

Two excellent statements!!!!!

My feeling on Brush bullets is not that they buck brush better than shorter faster bullets but that they provide deeper penetration in game. I used the 200 gr. Speer Hotcor in my 308 as my "Brush" rifle for that reason. I never recovered one but the deer all fell down pretty fast.