All these people and bullet manufacturers are talking about best accuracy being around .003-.007" off the lands. how the heck am i supposed to figure out what that is? do i need some kinda special gauge?

One handy tool to determine the distance from bolt face to the lands is the Stony Point gauge:

Stony Point

In use, the bullet style/weight you plan to load is inserted in a special SP case which screws on the above gauge and is inserted into chamber of the gun to obtain desired measurement.

You can do the same thing by taking a case fired in your rifle, run it into your sizing die just enough to "roll" the end of neck sufficiently to hold a bullet so that it can be pushed back into the case with firm pressure by hand. Use a magic marker to color side of bullet. Leave the bullet long and chamber the round. The lands will seat the bullet. Extract the round and you can measure the distance to the lands using a dial caliper and the SP Comparator:

SP Bullet Comparator

There is a possibility that the lands will grab the bullet and pull it out of the case, the magic marker will show you if the bullet is partially extracted from the case.

Regards,
hm

Back off your seating die about 5-8 turns, then seat a bullet in the case. try to load the round into the chamber. If it goes in, back off the seating die some more until the round won't go in.

After you do that, start turning the seating die in a small 1/4 turn at a time until the round chambers. at this point you should be really close to the barrel lands.

I have the luxury of owning a T/C which i can remove the barrel from the frame to do this.

i don't understand what the magic marker is for. if the lands seat the bullet, why mess w/ magic marker. what good will that do? explain

And, you can likely start cussin the manufacturers because the best overall length for accuracy will result in a cartridge that won't fit in the factory magazine--or maybe only one in the mag and one in the chamber--like the last 3 .22-250s I've owned. Still shoot lights out, just have a "two-shooter"

i don't necessarily need a one-holer. I just have a 1977 stock hunting rifle that shoots 1 inch so far. After free-floating and these new bullets, i should get down to half inch or better. 1 inch isn't good enough for me anymore. kinda sux, but oh well. I'm disappointed when i get one inch groups w/ new load workups, doesn't even phase me that's it's a half-decent group lol. can't wait to try out the TSX

quote:

Originally posted by beretta9289:
i don't understand what the magic marker is for. if the lands seat the bullet, why mess w/ magic marker. what good will that do? explain

The magic marker will show you just were the lans have contacted the bullet and how much. The marker will be gone and you'll see the brass on the bullet.

By the way I find most of my guns shoot best with the bullet against the lans.

quote:

Originally posted by beretta9289:
i don't understand what the magic marker is for. if the lands seat the bullet, why mess w/ magic marker. what good will that do? explain

There is a possibility that the lands will grab the bullet and pull it out of the case as you extract it.

The magic marker will show you if the bullet is partially extracted from the case by the case neck scraping off the color on the bullet. This is not necessary if you buy the Stony Point as it has a stem you lock against base of bullet while the bullet is in contact with the lands.

Regards,
hm

quote:

Originally posted by beretta9289:
All these people and bullet manufacturers are talking about best accuracy being around .003-.007" off the lands. how the heck am i supposed to figure out what that is? do i need some kinda special gauge?

Hey Beretta9289, I beleive you can go to this Thread on Bullet Seating and get your answers.

If you have a Cleaning Rod, a Flat Tipped Jag, and a set of 0.001" capable Calipers - you do not need to buy anything.

H C is right. Much better method than magic markers and closing the bolt to seat the bullet, IMO. You can never be exact about how much the bullet was pushed into the lands or how far the bullet was pulled back out of the lands. You can get close, probably to within .05" or so, but the eye can not distinguish such a small measurement and the case neck may not scrape the magic marker off to the very edge of the neck opening.

Yep, using the cleaning rod method is better, but not as good as the Stoney Point or Sinclair products that are made to do the job!



I actually have a tool that I bought from a guy that used to post on this site. I call it the Reeves tool ($25.00). Here is a picture with the Stoney Point tool above it.




It is the most accurate. It is essentially like a cleaning rod with a jag on it but it has 2 collars that slide up and down the shaft with a big allen screw to lock them in place. Loosen the 2 collars, close the bolt, slide the rod down until it hits the face of the bolt, lock the back collar, take the bolt out, insert a bullet lightly into the leade, slide the rod down gently until it hits the bullet meplat, lock the front collar and then measure between the 2 collars. 100% accurate and foolproof (helps me out).

The Stoney Point makes an excellent tool for inserting the bullet into the leade!

The Stoney Point is also useful when used with the comparator set so that you measure bullet seating to the ogive rather than the meplat. That is really what you want.

once you get the bullet seated w/ the lands seating it, what do you do next? want to make SURE i get it right.

quote:

Originally posted by beretta9289:
once you get the bullet seated w/ the lands seating it, what do you do next? want to make SURE i get it right.

Measure the OAL, subtract .05" or whatever you decide and seat your loads at that new OAL.

Oh, and after you finish a loaded bullet, chamber it and feel how stiff the bolt closes to make sure it is not hitting the lands any more. Also look at the loaded bullet before you test it in the chamber and after extraction look closely for any land marks on the ogive. Also measure the OAL before you test it and after extraction to make sure the bullet is not being seated farther by the lands.

after i seat the bullet w/ the lands, i color it over w/ marker and i still get scratches although it doesn't seat it any further. could those lines or scratches be from the bullet dragging on something while extracting? I'm so dam confused.

Ok, i just did it 3 times in a row and it was a consistent 3.545 inches COAL when i seated it w/ the lands. I subtracted .070" off that and came up with 3.475", so i will test that combo this week at the range. this is fun.

I also use the Stony Point tool and Stony Point Bullet Comparator… one thing to remember; for each type of bullet (nosler 200gr accubond, or 200gr bt) you must remeasure, not just when changing brands or weights. The measurement should be consistent within any particular brand-style-weight.

quote:

Originally posted by beretta9289:
I subtracted .070" off that and came up with 3.475", so i will test that combo this week at the range. this is fun.

Your having too much fun. You probably wanted to take .007 off not .70, so would be 3.538.
Be aware that most bullets arn't the same length to the tip, and maybe up to .020 back and more could work also.

I take a case , neck size it, slice a slit in the neck with a thin dremel cutting wheel. This will hold a bullet firm but will push the bullet into the neck as you chamber it and close the bolt and wont stick in the lands. Wave a white dove feather in the air and say presto. Carefully open the bolt and remove the round. Measure it and you have COL to the lands.

Take your other brand bullets you want to shoot in that barrel and do the same.

Write down the COL to lands for each brand bullet for that rifle.

No fancy tools or sticks needed

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

quote:

Originally posted by beretta9289:
I subtracted .070" off that and came up with 3.475", so i will test that combo this week at the range. this is fun.

Your having too much fun. You probably wanted to take .007 off not .70, so would be 3.538.
Be aware that most bullets arn't the same length to the tip, and maybe up to .020 back and more could work also.

Hey JAL

He was right, subtract .07". Subtracting .007" would put it way too close to the lands for a TSX.

i got some decent accuracy yesterday at the range. I didn't realize just how important letting the barrel cool btw shots is until my last group. so i'm disregarding me first 3 groups as i didn't let it cool enough. Next time i need to take my .22 with me so i can do somethin in between shots.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
[Hey JAL

He was right, subtract .07". Subtracting .007" would put it way too close to the lands for a TSX.

Thanks, is that a Barnes recommendation and what difference would it make?

Barnes recommends to start loading it's X and TSX bullets .05" off and go from there. There have been some threads on this and one said that the accuracy increased at .07" or so (if I remember correctly). I have done a sequence starting at .015" and moving out in .015" increments. The accuracy was better at the .03" loading than at the .015" load but stayed the same all the way out to .06" where I stopped. Maybe I didn't go far enough but it was shooting 3/4" anyway.

Quoting from the instructions in the TSX box:

"Seat Barnes Triple Shock X-Bulets between 0.030" to 0.070" off the lands for best accuracy. We recommend starting at 0.050" off the lands, then fine tune the load by adjusting seating depth either closer or farther from the lands in 0.005" to 0.010" Increments"

One of the great things about the TSX, the seating depth is not critical.