are there any diffences in loading for the 300 win over the wsm? i just shot my first rifle loads so i have limited knowledge with them. i don't own anything that is belted so i don't know if there is anything special about the steps to load them. ive loaded a few batches for my 270wsm now and have found that they can be pretty easily bulged at the bottom of the neck so i assume the 300wsm will be similar. also for the 300 win it seems that ive read both and not sure which is correct does the belted case headspace on the belt or the shoulder. it would seem that it would have no choice but to space on the shoulder but what is the belt there for?

The belt on the belted magnum cases serves no real purpose, but these cartridges do headspace on the belt. I don't currently own any belted magnum cartridge rifles and don't plan to own another one. They can be made to shoot very accurately but I have found them to be much harder to develope loads for. When doing load testing I look for -.5 MOA and usually find a load that will shoot this well at least on occasion but will settle for MOA. I don't keep a bolt rifle that won't shoot MOA.

You can reload the 300 Win just as normal. Set you die so there is slight "cam over" as you press the handle down, same as if it was a rimless case.

If you do that and your die and chamber are standard dimensions then the case will head space on the belt.

Alternatively you can back the die out a little bit, maybe try half or turn or and then it will headspace on the shoulder.

In reality setting the proper headspace on rimless and belted is the same. Do the following for either

1) Set the die so there is a small clearance between bottom of die and shell holder. Perhaps have the die screwed out about 1 turn from the position where it would contact the shell holder with a bit of a cam over

2) Resize and deprime the case. Then chanber the case and close the bolt with the trigger pull. You will probaly find there is resistance to closing the bolt. This is because the resizing of the case initially pushes the shoulder forward as the case body is squeezed.

3) Screw the die down a little, not much, maybe a quarter of a turn and the again resize deprime and chamber so trigger is pulled as you close the bolt.

What you are looking for is a nice easy bolt close. Or if you like a 2 or 3 thou headspace you adjust the die do you can push the bolt back and forward a couple of thou on the chambered case.

And again the process is the same for both rimless and belted.

They put a belt on the 300 Winchester Magnum to impress those who think a belt is something to brag about or its more powerful.

The belt on a 300 WM is useless and in fact negative.

If you FL size that cartridge all the way to the shell holder you will set the shoulder back some and after a few loadings the expansion web will thin and begin to separate.

There is nothing wrong with a belted case. They can be very accurate and headspace on the belt with the first firing and then you can size so that they headspace on the shoulder for every firing after that.

Personally I would rather have a belt than a fat case on a short action that can and often does have feeding problems, is so short that the bullet often intrudes on the powder capacity and means less rounds in the magazine.

The 300 win mag will walk all over the 300 WSM when it comes to velocity with the heavier bullets and you can buy a box of bullets anywhere bullets are sold. I have reloaded and shot many 300 WSM's and many more 300 win mags. Give me the 300 win mag.

quote:

Originally posted by sksshooter:
ive loaded a few batches for my 270wsm now and have found that they can be pretty easily bulged at the bottom of the neck

What is this bulge business? I don't think that is kosher, and we should get you straightened out in this respect.

Bulge as in seating bullet with a highly compressed load?? Or bulged after just sizing?? Or bulged only after bullet seating, even if no powder in case??

Don't worry too much about loading belted cases. No, the .300 WM belt is strictly speaking not necessary, but is there for historical reasons. Use search function here, and locate description (e.g by "Hot Core"), on how to set up your FL sizing dies for PFLS (Partial Full Length Sizing). That will ensure you headspace your (belted) cases on the shoulder. From then on, there is little difference in loading for belted vs. non-belted cases.

- mike

i think im straightend out on the bulging the 270 cases there is another thread here in the reloading section where i asked about that. i loaded some more rounds for that rifle paying extra attention to the die setup and i believe that was my problem with the seating die being a hair to deap and contacting the crimping part of the die.

as for the 300 im still undecided which one im going to go with. i think at this point the rifle i decide on is going to determine weahter its the wm or wsm as a couple that i like don't offer both chamberings.

quote:

Originally posted by sksshooter:
i believe that was my problem with the seating die being a hair to deap and contacting the crimping part of the die.

Makes sense.

- mike

I pretty much ignore the belt on belted mags and use a hornday headspace tool to measure resized rounds and fit them to the chamber. That said most belted mag brass doesn't last nearly as long as wsm brass. On the negative side regarding wsm brass I've found that I've run into (and other wsm loaders report) that even moderate loads seem to create a stiff bolt lift unless the brass is set up with about .003" headspace. The problem seems to be associated with the large angular shoulder of the wsm. 300 wsm brass can also be tough to resize and you have to watch how headspace seems to change as the brass is fired more and more. I personally find the 300 win to be easier to reload and a bit more reliable on ejection.

This is an example of a problem you can have with a 300 WSM.

The action is a standard short action Remington SPS and the barrel is a Christensen. The feeding was atrocious with every round binding coming out of the mag. If you tried bolting fast about 1/2 of them would chamber but you ran the risk of denting the case and bending the neck if the round did not chamber.

Pics




Any bullet tried had to be seated deep


Sometimes it wouldn't even eject!

The owner took it to a gunsmith and after honing and trying to make the rounds chamber easier, he pronounced it a POS and didn't even charge. Said life was too short to have to fool with guns like that.

Now recently I mounted a scope on a Tikka T3 Lite 270 WSM that chambered every round slick. Very nice gun!

Just be careful what you get.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
This is an example of a problem you can have with a 300 WSM.

The action is a standard short action Remington SPS and the barrel is a Christensen. The feeding was atrocious with every round binding coming out of the mag. ...

Hey Woods, I've not seen a "Bolt" like that in a Remington, is that something the (alleged) GunSmith put in it?

Quite obvious by the Follower position that the GunSmith never Timed the Feed properly by adjusting the Rails. I'd say it is a good thing the (alleged) GunSmith did not charge the guy and in fact, should be required to restore it to the Factory Specs as possible.

On second thought, no, the rifle's owner needs to take the rifle to a real GunSmith and let him straighten it all out. Education is expensive!
-----

Really like the excellent Belted Cases myself. Anyone that has a (rag) M-70 and Mousers should like them too since they provide a whole lot of "Eye Protection" for them that is not available with Standard (308, 30-06, etc) Cartridges.

But, I've nothing at all against the WSM line of Cases...., well..., that is not quite True. I'd never buy one just to keep from profiting rick jamison - who sued Winchester over the Case Design.

It said REMINGTON on the side!

Of course I don't own but one, mainly because I don't like the safeties!

i did some work on a friends custom made .300 wsm. his had the same issue. i widened up the rails that hold the cartridges in the mag with a file and it feeds smoothly now. an aftermarket follower also helped.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
It said REMINGTON on the side!

Not talking about the "Action", I mean the actual "Bolt".

quote:

Of course I don't own but one, mainly because I don't like the safeties!

You are BAAAAAADDDDD!

quote:

Personally I would rather have a belt than a fat case on a short action that can and often does have feeding problems, is so short that the bullet often intrudes on the powder capacity and means less rounds in the magazine.

My custom 300 H&H, built on a Mauser action, feeds so slick - the belt has never been a drawback. The tapered case was also designed for easy extraction in very hot climates when one borders at the pressure ceiling.

If a factory rifle has to be tuned to feed better, I do not want it.
WSM's are dead in the water here in SA.
WSM's are punted for its accuracy, but that is just a marketing ploy.
WSM's cases are not readily available here in SA.
One guy here had to buy Winchester ammo to get hold of cases.

The 300 H&H can take longer bullets and excels with premium 200 grain bullets.
WSM's are designed for shorter and lighter bullets, and so I much rather have a 300 H&H than a 300 WSM.
Good thing is CZ has brought the 300 H&H back to life.
PMP is also offering ammo for the 300 H&H and that also helps the non reloader.

The only real justification of the .300 magnums is their ability to push 200 & 220 Gr bullets at adequate velocities for hunting of big game, like Gemsbok and Kudu at long range and that makes the 300 H&H the clear winner as its case has a longer neck which makes it easier to reload with the heavier bullets than its rivals. If you wish to shoot 180 Gr bullets in your 300 H&H, you might as well stay with your 30-06 as the extra velocity will do you no good.

In 1963 when Winchester introduced the .300 Winchester Magnum, it replaced the long-loved .300 H&H (one of the Model 70’s original chamberings) with the shorter cased, short-necked, parallel-sided newcomer, making a Pre-1964 .300 Winchester Magnum the new defacto standard as it was cheaper for Winchester to offer a .300 Magnum on a shorter action rather than using the much more expensive longer (magnum) Mauser actions. As production of new new 300 H&H rifles came to an end, its was the start of its dwindling popularity amongst the younger generation. Pure economics on the part of Winchester.

Warrior

I own both a 270 WSM in a M-70 CRF and a 300 WSM in a M-70 CRPF. Both feed flawlessly and are quite accurate. My 300 WSM will push a 180 gr. Rem Corelok at appox. 3040 fps. I am planning on working on going a little faster with it sometime in the future. The only issue I have had with reloading for both is that in my rifles I have to completely Full Length resize my cases each time.

I use the same techniques to load for both. Except that I have neck sizing dies for the WSM but just back off the FL dies for the win mag.

As far as differences between them I guess 100 fps or so more from the win mag is the main one. The bullets eat the same amount of case capacity in both.

Except my 300 win mag is a mod 70 so I modified the action and took out the spacer in the magazine to allow me to seat the bullets a bit further than factory rounds. Other than they look cool like old Mashburn 7mm mags I am not sure what I really will gain from the extra seating room .

The 300WM has a reputation for accuracy. I have not heard the same about the 300WSM. Instead people say how fast they can drive them!
I DO use the belted magnum resizing die from Larry Willis as I have more than one 300WM.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
The 300WM has a reputation for accuracy. I have not heard the same about the 300WSM. Instead people say how fast they can drive them!
I DO use the belted magnum resizing die from Larry Willis as I have more than one 300WM.
Peter.

wasn't the 1000 yard record just set with a 300wsm?

thanks for all the info so far guys. so far it sounds like the there is no real difference in loading for either as far as either being problematic.

Just think!! You could have had a 300 SAUM!! Superior to the WSM, just keeping up with the original WM. GHD