I just started reload for my 300WM. It's a charles daly/Mark X. etc...

Seems the cases are too long to the shoulder after I resize them. by .010. The dies are RCBS 2 die set. The ammo was once fired but not in my rifle. I miced them against a factory loaded ammo.

Most such "bad dies" are really the result of a failure to screw the sizer down far enough to set the case shoulders back properly.

thought of that, learned that lesson before, It's bottomed out on the shellholder.

If you read RCBS' directions for setting the dies, I believe it says to bottom the die against the shellholder, then drop the ram and go another half turn (or a quarter turn; I don't remember for certain). The instructions talk about the press "camming over". I know that might not make sense, but .010" is not much, and that extra bit of adjustment probably makes the difference.

quote:

The ammo was once fired but not in my rifle .

I've run into this myself and it's seriously agravating!!!

I had two .257 Weatherby rifles and brass from one never fit the other even after full length resizing.

I assumed error in the dies and sent them back to RCBS....they checked them out and returned them to me saying they were dimensionally correct.

I'm saying to myself.....bullcrap....if I FL resized them they should fit.....period!

The headspace on magnums is to the belt.....and I don't know the tolerances to the shoulder but it must be liberal.....(damn I hate that word)

I never got it resolved!!!!!except to keep the brass separate!!!!!

If I run into that today, I'll put the die in the lathe and push the belt diameter .015 deeper using a sharp carbide boring tool and shave off the end of the die .015.....that should match the die to my rifle.

I've read others here expressing the same problem.....I know the frustration!

quote:

Seems the cases are too long to the shoulder after I resize them. by .010. The dies are RCBS 2 die set. The ammo was once fired but not in my rifle. I miced them against a factory loaded ammo.

Have you tried chambering a few pieces or just measured it?
I always found unfired factory brass to be at the very minimum of headspace tolerance. If you are only going by comparison of your resized to virgin brass you might find your resized stuff is actually a better fit in your rifle.
Try measuring a case fired in your chamber and then try matching that figure when resizing in the future

I can feel your pain, it happened to me as recently as last year with a 243.

Long story short, I have a set of RCBS 243 small base dies and in true reloader form I have never owned a rifle in that caliber, but have a friend with a M70 in 243 and a bunch of empty brass. To make the brass fit the chamber I had to grind a bit off the shellholder but eventually they fit just fine.

The only thing I can think of is my shellholder was not an RCBS so that could have made a difference in the shoulder, plus it is cheaper to replace the shellholder than the die would be if my guess had been wrong.

Please see my response on the bad RCBS shellholder thread.
Regards, Joe

Thanks . JD saw that after I posted.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
Please see my response on the bad RCBS shellholder thread.
Regards, Joe

Ol' Joe asked the right question and I'll repeat it.

You've measured the brass against a factory case but have you tried them in your rifle. You will probably find that they will fit just fine.

Most standard factory dies that I have used (and I have over a hundred on the shelf) will only FLS to about 5 to 10 thou over new unfired cases.

Nevertheless those FLSed cases have all chambered properly in factory chambers.

Again, Ol' Joe had it right, most unfired factory brass is undersized or at the bare minimum of SAAMI specs for headspace.

After first firing the cases blow out to average SAAMI dimensions and the die manufacturers make their standard dies to set back the cases just enough to chamber in standard rifles.

They make the dies this way to cater for the majority of consumers who simply read the instructions and set up the dies hard against the shellholder with no understanding of headspace.

If they made the dies to set back to unfired case dimensions then case separations would become common after just a couple of firings, a situation they are trying to avoid.

AR forum readers understand the correct way to set up dies and know that occasionally there will be a chamber/ die mismatch.

Sometimes the solution is as stated by some of the other posters, a bit of judicious grinding which is easy enough with non belted cases but belted cases are the real problem.

Sometimes a change of die brand helps but that tends to be pot luck. I haven't found any brand consistently shorter in headspace dimensions than any other.

However most of the die manufacturers recognise the problem and will make or modify a die if you send in some cases fired in YOUR rifle.

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thought of that, learned that lesson before, It's bottomed out on the shellholder.[QUOTE]

[quote]he only thing I can think of is my shellholder was not an RCBS so that could have made a difference in the shoulder

Worth a check - what shellholder are you using?

This happens to me a good bit especially in my 257 Roberts. Last night it happened with some 280's and I pulled my Redding shellholder out of my Redding press and inserted a Lyman shellholder and sized them back to where they would chamber.

If they still don't chamber I will lower the ram just enough to turn the case while it is still in the shellholder. Turn the case a little and resize again. Do it about 3 times. Sometimes it works well and sometimes not.

I did not think of this stuff myself. The advice was given to me from members here. Merg

quote:

thought of that, learned that lesson before, It's bottomed out on the shellholder.

Sometimes the loader "bottoms out" on the shell holder without a case in place. Look under the die with a case fully inserted and see if you can see light shining between the die and shell holder, if so turn the die down further. If not, grind/sand a few thou off the bottom of the die.

Trying to adjust a die by factory "instructions" which say to go 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, etc, turn passed shell holder contact is so often wrong it's foolish to even print. Presses and their linkages vary in spring between makers, and even within makers, so we need to adjust our dies according to results - performance - not by rote.

all equip is RCBS.

I remember loading for a friend with a savage 30/06 a few years back. After checking everything over I finally took a bit off the shellholder (least expensive part) and that worked fine.

This 300wm is my first exper. reloading for a magnum. Does anyone still make "Browning" dies?

Rich

Don't worry about the magnum, just reload for it like any other bottle neck cartridge. That is to say, work from the shoulder.

When you have a case all the way into the die, is there any of the case showing between the shell holder and the mouth of the die?? If there is, your die is not set down far enough. Sometimes presses will spring a bit when you're reloading a case. Soemthing they don't do in a no load situation.

Something you might try, run a case thru the die without the expander button in the die and see how it chambers. My .25-06 used to like to stretch necks unless I lubed the expander; it pulled the neck hard enough to stretch it a bit. I solved the problem by going to a carbide expander.
C.G.B.

Despite what some of the experts say here on the AR forum, I have at least one F-L that will not set the shoulder back enough unless I use the same brand of shell holder for a particular rifle chamber. I even try to keep the dies and the shell holder of the same manufacturing vingtage since so much is made who knows where anymore. I also have a set of Lee 338 WM dies that some machinist/CNC machine decided to turn into a Small Base F-L die that would shave off case brass as it went in near the top. Bought a set of Redding Dies and problem goes away - no more case shaving.

Also ditto on the ram/handle camming over against the die. It does make a difference on my RCBS press.

I have a custom Hagn-Martini single shot in 257 Roberts that will not chamber some new factory brass, much less brass fired in another rifle. I bought a set of Redding Competition Shellholders, which has five shellholders of graduated thicknesses (all thicker than regular shellholders) to adjust the headspace to your rifle, and bingo! No more problems. Sinclair has them for 6 different case head groups.

Get yourself a hornady headspace measuring bushing kit. (About $35) It will end virtually all aggrevation related to headspace.
First step with too much headspace is to get the press camming over by turning the die another 1/8-1/4 turn AFTER hitting the shellholder. If this doesn't work shave about .015 off the top of the shellholder simply by holding it against a grinding wheel.
I also have redding body dies in my fav cartridges. You can even correct loaded ammo with these suckers if you wish. (But the real reason I own em is they are wonderful with the lee collet die)

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:If I run into that today, I'll put the die in the lathe and push the belt diameter .015 deeper using a sharp carbide boring tool and shave off the end of the die .015.....that should match the die to my rifle.

This may or may not match your rifle but it wiil give you .015 more adjustment.

borrowed a lyman die from a friend. Everything is fine now.

If that solved the problem, send a couple of re-sized cases from the dies back to RCBS along with the dies and explain what you ran into. I suspect RCBS will try to make it right...