With "any" given powder,what (in your opinion) would be a "safe" reduced load.
Remember, no specific brand of powder or caliber or bullet weight.
If I tell you it's for a .221 Fireball with AA2230C with 55 gr. FMJ you will direct me to the reloading pages! Just opinions please. And thank you!!

It is commonly understood that it is not safe to load below the reccomendations given in the manuals. Detonations with broken rifles and human injuries have resulted.

Experienced handloaders are aware of exceptions, but you have refused to give specifics.

I hadn't given"specifics" because I was just wondering how much of a reduced load was the "norm". I know about "recommended minimum loads" as listed in the manuals, but folks that have "tested" less than min. loads were sure to have opinions as what you can get away with.
Just looking for opinions. Mike.

I like to do Blue Dot reduced loads.

For 221 55 gr FMJ, start at 7 gr 2000 fps 3,000 psi and work up toward 14 gr 3000 fps 68,000 psi. I think you will find happiness at around 12 gr.

quote:

Originally posted by Nor Cal Mikie:
With "any" given powder,what (in your opinion) would be a "safe" reduced load.
Remember, no specific brand of powder or caliber or bullet weight....

Hey Mikie, From "my" perspective, the way you worded the question makes it extremely easy to answer:

NONE!

Hot Core: Thats what I asked for. Opinions! I know some folks are doing reduced loads so I wanted opinions. I got yours. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Nor Cal Mikie:
Hot Core: Thats what I asked for. Opinions! I know some folks are doing reduced loads so I wanted opinions. I got yours. Thanks!

Hey Mikie, You are welcome.

If the wording of your original question was altered a bit, then there are indeed certain Powders which lend themselves well to Reduced Loads. I use them myself.

But, that is totally different than "any and all" Powders.

Best of luck to you.

Hot Core: I knew that if I specified one powder, one bullet weight and caliber that it would be "too" specific so the question was asked in a "general" manner. I know that minimun loads are suggested/recommended in the reloading manuals but I also know that some folks are loading at less than minimum with good results. Thats why I wondered if there was a "rule of thumb" and just what folks were doing. Just how far down can you go and still get good results?! Thanks for your input. Every little bit helps. Mike.

There are certain powders that are meant for reduced loads. XMR has one and there is a SR 4759 or some such. In general where you get into trouble is with slow powders and very light loads. They can lead to barrel detonation. If you give a cartridge you may get more detail. Call XMR Or Dupont and you can get spefifics for your cartridge of interest if you don't care to post it here. I have done a bit with the 30-06 and the 375 H&H. If you want specifics about those two PM me and I will share what worked in my rifles. Good hunting, "D"

Hey Mike, Then the answers tnekkcc and D Hunter are providing are "better" answers than what I've given you.

Certain Powders can be downloaded SAFELY while some can not. Lots of Reduced Loads are shown in the Manuals and Hodgdon has a "Special Notice" about being able to use H4895 at 60% of any MAX Load you see them list for it.

Then you get into folks who had used Reduced Loads for years(like me) with "some" of the Powders normally thought to be Fast Powders(like tnekkcc mentioned) and the Specialty Reduced Load Powders(like D Hunter mentioned).

Where the Potential Problem comes in is with the Slow Powders. If they are Reduced below what is in the Manuals with some cartridges, you can get the old Secondary Explosion Effect or Detonation. Neither of these are good.
---

If there is a specific Cartridge you are interested in, perhaps someone could help you with it, or check the Hodgdon web site and look for the H4895 Special Download info.

Best of luck to you.

Reduced loads can be walked down to subsonic/1000 fps or less....WITH THE CORRECT POWDER!!!!

First of all, don't try to used real slow powders for reduced loads!!!! ONce one gets that thru their heads and tattoed on their brain... one can do a lot with reduced loads.....

While some people freak out over reduced loads, cast bullet shooters have been doing them for eternity, because a cast bullet won't hold up to jacketed bullet speeds....

Not all fast powders are capable of real good accuracy in my opinion... and they do not possess the same patterns that mid range and slower powders have...

Example given, case position sensitive..... or even temperature sensitivity..... with a standard large rifle primer, in even a magnum case, regardless of position of the powder in the case, to almost very low low powder volume.. will ignite..... One just needs to make sure that one has the velocity to get the bullet out of the barrel.... however, there are little practical applications for that, unless one is experimenting for his own curiosity ( like I do)

I have taken a 223 cases and put 2 grains of blue dot in them and had them ignite and shoot a 55 grain bullet out the barrel... I have routinely chronographed loads with 4 grains of blue dot with a 55 gr bullet to duplicate a 22 Long rifle.....There are a lot of faster powders than blue dot, which in theory ( as I have not had the need to try it) which would ignite as easy if not easier....

A rifle primer capable of igniting 60 to 80 grains of powder in a case of slow powder, is surely capable of igniting 2 to 5 grains of powder in rifle case, regardless of position....

Like mid range and slow burning powders, some are better in an application that others... faster powders are no different....

Some faster powders have quick pressure spikes...
like 9 grains is fine and 9.2 will lock up your bolt.... others have a remarkable tolerance and will let you know long before you are hitting too high of a pressure..... EGs, Blue Dot, SR 4759, XMR 5744, IMR 4227, IMR 4198, H 4198.....

Reduced loads can add up to a lot of off season shooting for a reduced price, less shooter fatigue, less wear and tear on the rifle barrel...teaching new shooters....

If one hand loads, for example, a 223 can be loaded to 22 Mag velocities and for a lot less than 22 mag ammo prices..giving all sorts of bullets choices... and a lot more accurate.....

with 55 grain FMJ ammo, you can actually get close to 22 LR prices and duplicate their velocities...

Anyone who doesn't understand reduced loads, or makes jokes about them ( REAL men don't need reduced loads!) don't have a clue of the fun and the flexibility of their firearm that they are missing....

cheers
seafire

Well, to be specific, I am thinking about reduced loads in a .221 fireball.(just thinking so far) Maybe 35 to 55 gr. bullets.I am using AA2230C and was wondering how low I could go on a charge. Not thinking accuracy or velocity, just a lower charge to see how they would work. AA2230C is not listed for .221 Fireball but it works great in my .223 and .308 so I use it in the fireball. A full case (just shy of compressed) of 2230C in the .221 gets me 3150 FPS with a 55 gr. FMJ with "good" accuracy out of a 22" barrel. No pressure signs and a good clean burn. I have downloaded to 18 grs. and still get super results. Tried some Lil Gun but not enough to have an opinion yet! At this stage I am just thinking . And I do appreciate the input. Thanks Guys! Mike.

As I shoot a fair amount of cast bullets, I like using reduced loads. What I've found is that generally, if you want really reduced loads, ie 1/2 the velocity or less of nominal full patch loads, you're best off using a small charge of a suitable faster powder, that ignites well when loaded as such.

I've had hangfires, inconistantly velocities and generally miserable results when loading the full patch powders to less than listed amounts.

H&N is a big manufacturer of lead bullets here in Germany. They publish a book with loads for lead bullets for both handgun and rifle. Most rifle loads are based on Vihta's N110 powder and go from the tiny Hornet (5 grain or so) up to the huge 9,3x64 mm cartridge.

The book is already on my wish list for Christmas.