How about runout when seating the bullet in standard dies? Does it happen then? When setting up my bullet seating die,RCBS, 243 Win., i find the longest case. I then turn the seating die down till i feel the crimper in the seating die contact the case mouth. This holds the case in alignment with the bullet being seated. No side to side moverment of the brass. Good idea or not? Your thoughts

quote:

Originally posted by 243winxb:
How about runout when seating the bullet in standard dies? Does it happen then? When setting up my bullet seating die,RCBS, 243 Win., i find the longest case. I then turn the seating die down till i feel the crimper in the seating die contact the case mouth. This holds the case in alignment with the bullet being seated. No side to side moverment of the brass. Good idea or not? Your thoughts

Seating die induced runout can definately be a problem. Using the crimper to hold the case steady in the die might help runout a bit, but the main cause of runout when seating is due to the fact that the bullet is unsupported as it is raised into the die and pushed into the case mouth. Not much you can do about it except go to in-line dies such as Wilson or Forster (I think I read that Forster's patent expired and Redding is going to offer a comparable in-line seater).

You have to figure too, the difference in neck wall thickness from one side of the case to the other. You are not likely to have a inter case mouth concentric to the axis of the outer case body because of this to start with.

IME, the best seater is the RCBS Competition Seater. It has a window in the side to put the bullet in and a sliding collet that keeps the bullet in line. Saves time and the least runout.

I have a Redding Competition Seater with the sliding collet but you still have to set the bullet on top and raise into the die. The only reason I have that is because they do not make a 280AI RCBS Competition Seater.

The RCBS is expensive but well worth the money. If you ever buy one you will see how they work and you will be getting more of them.

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Originally posted by Ol` Joe:
You have to figure too, the difference in neck wall thickness from one side of the case to the other. You are not likely to have a inter case mouth concentric to the axis of the outer case body because of this to start with.

And Ol` Joe has put into words why all the fretting over Run-Out is like a dog chasing it's tail.

And if you "True" the Necks, that induces an entire new level of problems.

Or, a person could just P-FLR with a Standard Die and not give Run-Out a second thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Ol` Joe:
You have to figure too, the difference in neck wall thickness from one side of the case to the other. You are not likely to have a inter case mouth concentric to the axis of the outer case body because of this to start with.

I would think neck turning would help.

Sometimes die makers make f/l dies which reduce neck diameters and base diameters too darn much. Some dates of RCBS dies do this in my experience. So if you carefully seat a bullet halfway in a such a tight case neck it looks like a snake eating an egg. If you seat the bullet in the case neck with the flat base or boattail below the bottom of the neck you never see it, but the .004- or worse out of round is there and accuracy is gone. This is because the neck is a couple thousands too small in your seater die and seating a bullet happens haphazardly. I must of had ten .223 f/l dies and looked at sizing diameters for base and neck, checked roundness and case headspace. I could live with a bit too small base but a too small neck kills accuracy. The above was my usual finding.

If you get fixated by "runout", there is a neat fix for runout after loading.

It's made by---
H&H Industries,Albany, Oregon 541-327-1411
(Sorry I don't have his website, but here's one that does http://www.vh2q.com/itemDetails.aspx?id=1691 )

It's a combination runout gauge/tester and an adjuster that will let you fix most, if not all, significant runout.

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I would think neck turning would help.

It might but it has its own set of problems to think about. Turning necks for factory chambers can cause them to be a sloppy fit and work hardening early from the extra expansion and resizeing. There is also the possibility of the sizeing die now not reducing the neck enough to tightly hold the bullet. Redding sizers with the inserts will cure this but it is added expense. The cartridge too might "lay" at the bottom of the chamber out of line with the bore and not gain a thing in concentricity, "donuts" can be a problem, and then there is the extra time involved.

If you have a tight match type chamber, fire form and neck size your brass you might gain by turning. If not I wouldn`t bother.
JMHO