I was given about 80 empty 300WBY brass that had been fired only once.

Even after I do a full length resize and trim it the bolt will not close if I chamber it.

I'm glad I checked a resized empty before I loaded any of it. Tried a sample from each box and had the same results.

Is there anything I can do or is it unusable for me.

How close does the bolt come to closing?

If it is within about 1/4" or less, I suspect the problem could be hot loads or an over- large chamber when it was first fired. Either one or both could cause the area right at the belt to swell, and that part doesn't go into conventional sizing dies. Because it doesn't enter the die, the die can't return it to original size.

The cure in that case is probably just to throw the brass away and buy new stuff. A person COULD get an L.E. Wilson-type arbor press die. They allow the case to go completely into the die, but they cost more than 80 rounds of used brass is worth.

Just out of curiosity, you might try re-priming one of the cases. If the primer goes in easier than normal, I'd suspect high first-firing pressures.

It's all once fired factory Weatherby stuff. The same stuff I reload myself after I use it the first time. It was even put back in the original factory box before it was given to me.

I suspect a swell just in front of the belt is exactly the problem. The guy who gave it to me had shot the stuff in a Rem 700 that was custom barreled and chambered for 300wby. Very possible the chamber was oversized.

Chambers (and dies) come in "all" sizes. There is nothing that guarantees, that a particular die setting (set up for brass fired in your own rifle, say) will size brass fired in a different chamber sufficiently.

The first thing you need to figure out is what (sized) case dimension stops the case from chambering. Mark a case (smoke or magic marker) and see what that tells you about the limiting case dimension.

If you have a Hornady (previously Stoney Point) Headspace Gauge, you can also measure if the head-shoulder dimension of the sized brass matches that of brass fired in your chamber.

With a bit of luck, you may be able to get the new brass to work with a modified die adjustment. After that, you need to return to the die adjustment established for your chamber.

- mike

Mike has it right -- smoke a case then attempt to chamber it to find where your contact point is. That will tell you how to approach remediating it (if it can be done at all without special dies.)

Check the bulge above the belt. If you are .515 or bigger you have the dreaded bulge. The possible only way to fix them is to run them through the innovative collet die. I have one and have reclaimed alot of my buddies custom wby's like yours. If you can find someone close by that can help you that would be great. If you like what brass you got now might be a good time to buy that die....your brass is worth the price of the die...almost.

I have about 100 rounds of once fired 270 Weatherby brass that were given to me by an individual that does not reload. I full length resized the brass and then tried a round in the chamber of my Weatherby and could not close the bolt. The chamber that the rounds were fired in was a custom chambered Lilja barrel that was just a few thousandths long. I could not resize them down to fit. They are still sitting under my bench.

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
Check the bulge above the belt. If you are .515 or bigger you have the dreaded bulge. The possible only way to fix them is to run them through the innovative collet die. I have one and have reclaimed alot of my buddies custom wby's like yours. If you can find someone close by that can help you that would be great. If you like what brass you got now might be a good time to buy that die....your brass is worth the price of the die...almost.

I ordered Innovative's die. Yep it's expensive but I won't have to turn down future free brass. I'll also be able to repair some brass I have that bulged when it was full length resized.

Friends-

This is a very interesting topic.

I have a question. I can see that the "bulge" ahead of the belt can/could be problematic.

But, couldn't the belt, itself, expand to the point that would render the brass unable to re-size?

quote:

Originally posted by 30 Caliber Mag Fan:
But, couldn't the belt, itself, expand to the point that would render the brass unable to re-size?

This would be a sign of too high pressure. Norma stokes their Wby factory loads pretty stoutly, but I doubt they issue over pressure ammo.

I have dabbled with the "collet" die for magnum "bulges". I was not impressed. YMMW...

- mike

MHO....I've use the collet die quite a bit. It's not as easy to use as a sizing die like we normally use in reloading but it gets the job done well.
Just curious what you didn't like about it.

Hey BigGuy, You may have the cart before the horse.

Before you start using the $100 fix, try this.
1. Remove the Expander Stem from your Full Length Die.
2. Raise the Shell Holder as far up as it will go in the Press.
3. Screw the Full Length Die in until it is tight against the Shell Holder.
4. Lower the Shell Holder.
5. Screw the FL Die "into the Press" another 1/4 turn. This will cause the Press to "Cam-Over" and exert the max Resizing Pressure on the Case.
6. Lube a Case and Resize it. Wipe off the Lube and try it in the Chamber.
7. If it fits, you are good to go. If it doesn't go on to #8.
8. Relube the Case and when you slide it into the Shell Holder, put a Feeler Gauge or Shim between the Case Head and Shell Holder. The thicker the better. And repeat the Resizing sequence.

The reason for removing the Expander is to lessen the work on the Case Neck and to avoid Hole Punching the Shim/Feeler Gauge if you get to #8.

If that does not fix it, I'd be surprised. I would only do this on a strong Press since some of the less expensive ones "might" not handle that amount of Pressure real well.

Best of luck to you.

I have tried 1 -7. In fact it was the first thing I tried.

I did not however, try removing the expander stem and shim inside the case holder. I know removing the stem will help but I'm still afraid I could really stick a case badly with that method. Won't that also bump the shoulder back considerably?

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
Won't that also bump the shoulder back considerably?

No doubt it should move it back a few thousandths. You could try it on one Case and if it works, then Fire Form the Case with a Cheap Bullet Seated 0.010" Into-the-Lands to correct that issue.

Once you get them to actually fit in your rifle and Fire Form them, they should always fit back into your Chamber. Exceptions would only be with Rifles which do not have "Tubular" Receivers which can cause the Chamber to become slighly Ovate. This is not as pronounced on Round Receivers.

Come to think of it, the Shoulder may be what needs moving anyhow. That does not mean the other guys are Wrong about the $100 Thingy, you might indeed need it. But then again, you might not.

As long as you use a good Lube like RCBS, Hornady or good old Imperial Sizing Die Wax(which is the BEST) and put enough on the Case, it won't stick. If you use a Spray-On Lube or do not Lube it enough, you can stick about any cartridge made. No need to Lube the top of the Shoulder area.

But, that is what I'd do. You should do what you want to do and what you think is the best for your situation.

Good luck.

A collet die may well solve your problem, but it certainly is NOT the only thing which will do it if the problem is insufficient sizing ANYWHERE on the case.

That's why I suggested the Wilson arbor-type die, which can be used in either an arbor press or a vice. It is designed so that the whole case including the case belt go into the die. It definitely sizes all the way down to the belt. It can do that because no shell holder is needed or used with it

Wilson arbor-type dies have been made now by at least 3 generations of Wilsons, and have been pretty much the favourite of benchresters for about 60 years. Their quality is very, very high, and I doubt if the sizing die alone costs $100. They also will adjust the die to fit your chamber, if you send along a couple of fired rounds from your rifle when you order.

I think it has to do w/ the long case and dr shoulder. I had a 6.5 x 300 WBY built. Ordered dies & new Rem cases. Sized all the cases, loaded them and shot my new rifle. When I resized the cases, they would NOT chamber. Trimmed the cases, FL sized, then neck sized only---still no. Even used the Redding comp shellholders. Never figured it out. I then ordered a new set of dies(from another maker) and had no more problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
A collet die may well solve your problem, but it certainly is NOT the only thing which will do it if the problem is insufficient sizing ANYWHERE on the case.

That's why I suggested the Wilson arbor-type die, which can be used in either an arbor press or a vice. It is designed so that the whole case including the case belt go into the die. It definitely sizes all the way down to the belt. It can do that because no shell holder is needed or used with it

Wilson arbor-type dies have been made now by at least 3 generations of Wilsons, and have been pretty much the favourite of benchresters for about 60 years. Their quality is very, very high, and I doubt if the sizing die alone costs $100. They also will adjust the die to fit your chamber, if you send along a couple of fired rounds from your rifle when you order.

I actually gave your suggestion some serious investigation before I ordered the collet die. I believe a full length resizing die made to match my fired brass would be outstanding! I went to LE Wilson's website to investigate.

http://www.lewilson.com/products.html

I couldn't find a full length resizing die in their products list. Did I miss something?

I checked their FAQ's and they say they are not making custom dies at this time. I assume that means they won't be matching dies to fired cartridges now either. Perhaps this is a bad assumption?

Maybe I made a mistake by not calling them and asking. But I was really looking for a fix and based on the info on their website it didn't "look" like they had it.

In contrast, the Innovative die was in stock and supposedly specifically addresses the issue I want to fix.

Innovative Technologies

They accept paypal on their website so ordering is very easy. I went ahead and ordered it.

Right now I'm watching the mailbox. In the meantime I've found out that I have additional rounds of 300 Weatherby brass (almost 60) that have some pre-belt swell problems. This brass still fits the gun but it's definately a tight fit that requires some extra effort to close the bolt handle. This tight brass has got to be a little tough on my locking lugs. My gun marks these casings just in front of the case belt. I doubt I'm getting the best accuracy this rifle is capable of reloading these!

I strongly suspect and do in fact believe actual die geometry and setup(partial or neck sizing versus full length) has the potential to eliminate this as a recurring issue for me. I've got two sets of dies for 300WBY. I've got both, Pacifics and RCBS, neither die seems to be able to fix the swell in front of the belt. I really don't want to buy another die set on the basis it might work. I admit I haven't tried shimming inside the shell holder to get a little more insertion. Some fear of sticking the case is part of the reluctance to try this. Another thing that bothers me about the shim method, even if it was successful I'd still have to make intermediate loads to fireform the shoulder back to where it should be. I've got enough brass that I'd rather not be burning even cheap bullets, primers and powder to fix them all. The collet die supposedly eliminates this step.

Cool!

While I was typing this response UPS has delivered my Innovative Collet die. So I guess it's to the reloading bench to see if in fact I've just wasted my money or I can now actually look forward to finally using quite a lot of brass that previously was unusable for me. Even if it doesn't work I'll post another response here. If it does fix this brass, I'll be a very happy guy and let you all know as well.

It is quite possible they have gone the way of many of the fine older firms. Perhaps Wilson's no longer makes them.

I know they did make full length arbor-press or hammer-type sizing dies for many years. I have several cabinet drawers full of them, which I have bought by mail, in gun shops, and on-site, in their facilitiy at Cashmere.

If they no longer will provide them, that is a pity. I will miss them and will have to make my own.

I hope your new die works well for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
It is quite possible they have gone the way of many of the fine older firms. Perhaps Wilson's no longer makes them.

I know they did make full length arbor-press or hammer-type sizing dies for many years. I have several cabinet drawers full of them, which I have bought by mail, in gun shops, and on-site, in their facilitiy at Cashmere.

If they no longer will provide them, that is a pity. I will miss them and will have to make my own.

I hope your new die works well for you.

I don't know what has happened. It may be I just don't know what to look for on their site. Or it may be they just can't afford to offer that service any longer.

If they don't offer it anymore or I just couldn't figure out how to order one from their site, it's a shame. I do like the design of the bullet seater on their site.

Any how to cut to the chase. Using Innovatives collet die, I resized 20 of the brass I inherited.

My first attempt using the collet die failed and I was pretty pissed until I looked at my sizing die and figured out it was set up to only partial resize. Then I was really mad at myself! Never ever only partial resize someone else's brass! What a boneheaded mistake! Changed the die setup to do a true full length resize and bingo the collet die fixes this previously unusable brass! It did exactly what I needed it to do. Fixed all of them. This is gonna keep me busy for a while that's for sure.

A note of caution here. The collet die does change case length slightly. So you better check case length after using the collet die.

The top of the die serves as a gage to determine if the area in front of the belt requires resizing. On these inherited cases the belt sits about 3/8" away from the back of the die! My own once fired brass drops right in. I checked some of the stuff I've reloaded three times and noticed a small gap between belt and die end.

For me anyway looks like Innovative's Collet die is gonna be pretty darn useful.

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:

I don't know what has happened. It may be I just don't know what to look for on their site. Or it may be they just can't afford to offer that service any longer.

If I had to guess, I'd say some of the following might make it unreasonable for them to make full length size dies any more:

1. Bushing dies, and body dies. With body dies available form folks like Redfield, there may be little call for Wilson's arbor-press type FL dies any more. Most benchresters accept very precise neck-turning as suitable for cases fire-formed in their own rifles, these days, so even if they have several rifles of the same nominal chambering, all they need is a precise neck-sizer. The interchangeable bushing dies, used in conjunction with the proper "body die", let them size to pretty much whatever their particular chamber(s) require...all with those two dies and a few bushings....and Wilson does still make those bushing dies, for sure.

2. Business size. Their business may have also become big enough or economically sound enough that they don't have to deal with the fussiness of target shooters & wildcatters any more. Such shooters CAN be a PITA, and if the Wilsons can earn a good living without that segment of business, I don't blame them a bit for sticking with very standard items only.

3. I'm sure customized dies must take several times the labour time to accurately make as do "shelf" items. Maybe modern costs of labour have simply driven them out of that market, regardless what they'd like to do.

Whatever, I'll miss those services. Next thing you know, all our dies and similar reloading equipment will be made in China, and subject to UN and our own government's import restrictions, as another way to bypass the Second amendment. I hope not, but I sure wouldn't be surprised.

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
Changed the die setup to do a true full length resize and bingo the collet die fixes this previously unusable brass! It did exactly what I needed it to do. Fixed all of them. ...

Hey BigGuy, Sure am glad it fixed your problem for you. Nothing like spending $100 and getting nothing for it, so at least you didn't totally waste your money.

Best of luck with the Cases.