I recently was load testing, using Win 1X fired brass in my .300 WSM, and after partial FL resizing, trimming, chamfering, etc. (which I usually do after every firing)I noticed upon loading that 9 out of 100 cases the bullet was loose enough in the neck to pull by hand, some cases easily. Barnes 180 TSX, all bullets measured the same dia. and fit tightly in next cases.
To clarify, at this loading the brass was twice fired/ sized. Any thoughts on this?

Sounds like youe expander ball, in the FL die, is too large.

Well, I thought about that, but I've loaded many hundreds if not thousands of rounds with that sizing die, and these 9 out of the last 100 cases are the only ones I've ever had that did this. Even when they were run back through, same thing. And I've sized cases since these that didn't demonstrate this problem.

I've had issues with custom dies switching brand of cases because the neck thickness was just a touch less.

Could the necks be hard and springing back after sizing?

Do you get the same results with the same cases if you resize without the expander in place?

What he is describing is something I've had happen on various occasions with Barnes TSX bullets and NEVER with traditional cup and core bullets. A Lee Factory Crimp Die works well to tighten the bullets up.

Ramrod, did not try resizing without expander ball in place. I will tonight though.

I guess the brass could be hard and springing back out, I should try annealing it and sizing again.

Grumulkin, the bullets all measured the same, and the ones that were too loose fit tightly in other cases, and all bullets fit loosely in affected cases. So loosely that in 2 of the cases, the bullet fell out when turned upside- down. I would be afraid to use a crimp die and have the mouth be holding the bullet, with absolutely no neck tension. I'm sure it would hold, but consistency would surely suffer.

Thanks so far, keep the thoughts rolling.

Lube the inside of the case necks. In 243win, i have seen thining of the case neck walls when using standard dies that overwork the brass.

quote:

Originally posted by Aggie:
Grumulkin, the bullets all measured the same, and the ones that were too loose fit tightly in other cases, and all bullets fit loosely in affected cases. So loosely that in 2 of the cases, the bullet fell out when turned upside- down. I would be afraid to use a crimp die and have the mouth be holding the bullet, with absolutely no neck tension. I'm sure it would hold, but consistency would surely suffer.

What I think happens is that if the neck isn't lubed enough, when the expander ball comes back out, it pulls on the neck and increases the diameter of the neck slightly around where the neck meets the shoulder of the case. As for poor consistency using a Factory Crimp Die to tighten the necks up; it's really a problem. The 30/06 load for my Encore uses TSX bullets and many of them are loose when seated. I tighten them with the Factory Crimp Die and accuracy has been very good.

Also, on one occasion, I shot loads some wherein some the bullet was firmly seated and an equal number where the bullet was so loose I could turn it with my fingers easily and guess what? The group with the loose bullets was a little smaller than the one with the firmly seated bullets.

Also, I'll bet if you try to seat bullets other than Barnes TSX bullets in your cases, you'll never have a problem with loose bullets. In addition, on some forum several years ago, one wrote of buying some factory loads that utilized Barnes bullets and noted that many of the cartridges had loose bullets in them.

Experienced the same problem. After the first firing of my 300 &
270 WSM's, I remove the expander ball when sizing. I use a
universal depriming die for all of my reloading.

Good information.

Without the expander ball, will I still get consistent inside neck diameters? I've never run into this problem.

If I simply lube necks with graphite, would that likely solve the problem?

Grumulkin, I've only used a factory crimp die on a .375 H&H, one time. Scored the case mouths, which didn't come out after firing. Had to be trimmed off. Did not cause any problems that I could tell, but didn't know if that would shorten the useful life of the cases. I didn't use it enough to know, because it didn't help my loads and I simply changed loads.

quote:

Without the expander ball, will I still get consistent inside neck diameters? I've never run into this problem

Sure PROVIDED you have neck thicknesses the same, same hardness etc.

Since you already have an issue of not enough tension with the expander on only some cases I would say without the expandere you will still have difference. Question will be will the ones that were loose now be tight enough to hold the bullet. The fact that it is only some cases in one brand says the issue is in those cases not the die.

Without the expander ball, will I still get consistent inside neck diameters? No, you need to use an expander. I've never run into this problem. This may be a brass problem, not a die problem as said above.

If I simply lube necks with graphite, would that likely solve the problem? May be on new brass if you have not been using lube. I use RCBS lube applyed with a nylon brush to clean the inside of the necks.You need to take measurements of the brass, before, during,after to see what your dies are doing. Measure the expander ball should be .002" smaller than bullet diameter. Does the neck expand .002" after seating a bullet?

I agree it is the brass. I had the same problem with some WW 375 H&H brass that I had been reloading for years. Used the same dies, same press but half the rounds would not hold a bullet; necks just got loose.

I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, punched out the primers, reloaded some new Rem brass I had on hand with same dies. No more loose bullets.

I also look at those particular cases being the issue--they are the only variable in the equation that exhibit the problem, and are also the piece of the equation that can vary quite a bit. If you really don't want to just pitch those cases, I would anneal them and try them one more time, but I'd tend to pitching them.