I went down to my local gunshop today, just to see what is new etc....It got me thinking on the drive home...

According to correspondence that they got from Winchester, Winchester is still going to be manufacturing all of the "new stuff" that it is coming out with....Made out of Plastic Composite, etc....There letter said that customers can still enjoy the same customer service and that their spendy Custom Shop rifles will still be around...

First of all, announcing that they are going to close their plant and that is the end of the Models 70, 94 and 1300....suddenly they have sold off an entire years worth in a few months based on the panic, and at increased market prices....

This has driven the cost of these items up 200 and 300 percent or more on the street....Every thing they made this year is gone.. sold off...in a panic....

Then whoever owns the name has one year left on its exclusivity ( is that a word?).....

So it hits the block again in a year, and the price of Model 70s, 94s and 1300 is up around or over $1,000 a piece....

Ruger has also raised its prices thru the roof... probably in anticipation that if Winchester pulls this off, they can get away with a dramatic price increase, based on less competition and higher prices for Winchester stuff....

Personally, Now I am thinking we are seeing the early stages of OIL Company board room marketing "flinflaming the public" starting to hit the firearm industry.....

I am sure they are planning to do a lot of "Cashing IN" NOW in case Hillary or one of her anti Gun Fellow Democrats end up in the White House in 2008.....

It thinking outside the box on my part, but I also think that the firearm manufacturers are also starting to think outside the box, and are working on doing the same thing that oil companies are doing...

Creating market scare to drive up prices dramatically.. and then do market price fixing... which is suppose to be illegal, but we have a government that doesn't enforce it, because it allows them to collect higher tax revenue off of the greater profits....which is the direct opposite of consumer protection.. or a free enterprise system.....

Personally, I am glad, I have what I have now....

I am starting to look at this whole thing with a jaundice eye....Why would Winchester, come up with a ton of new nifty ideas, put it in a catalog and then pull this.. unless it was planned all along to manipulate the public and the market from the gitgo....

something stinks here, once you give this a little thought....

just the way I see it!

cheers
seafire

Its about what I read in a magazine some where I don't understand Ruger going up with CZ out there . I think there is just to much liability out there .Every one always gets in a panic.I remember when they quit making model 12 winchester shotguns you would have thought the world came to a end.Same with rifles in 1964 , I sold all my pre 64's and bought better more acurate guns , I think modern guns are superior , so we will live through it.
Bill

Wouldn't surprise me. I think the pricing on all "no longer in production" M70's, 94's, et all will increase, be they new or used . If ya just can't live without that Wichester, better buy now.

The announcement can also be a union busting ploy as well.....

Not to worry.....I have confidence that the real treasures of the firearms world .....the M-70.....will be made by someone somewhere and at some reasonable market price.

Check out CanadianLefty's post on the Medium Bore Forum, "Are You Buying Up Model 70's?" I told you so.

quote:

his has driven the cost of these items up 200 and 300 percent or more on the street

Are you saying that Win. guns are now selling for two to three times the price??

I see it as a money loosing operation in New Haven that has been going in and out of bankruptcy since 1994. Then the WSSM's fell on their face. They are just not profitable thats all.

You see it as a conspiracy and I see it as bad managers getting the run around from a bad union. The operation deserves to die out.

Seafire, you may be onto something. One thing I can tell you for sure that is related that you touched on in your post is the petroleum company factor.

The trickle down impact of absurd petro prices affect damn near everything we come into contact with.

Freight goes up SIGNIFICANTLY with increasing fuel costs. Heavy materials (like steel [barrels/recievers] and wood) are instantly more costly. Plastic and other petroleum products take a double hit when the raw costs increase and shipping hits them as well, much of it is heavy, but even the light stuff gets shipped.

I know it is a pisser when I look at the petro companies posting record profits--not just sales volumes (that alone would not be as disconcerting) but record high profits!

I'm going to stock up on some more supplies to avoid the next price hike.

Spoke to a gentleman at the Winchester (US Repeating Arms booth in Reno. The poor chap was nearly in tears as it's very real to the employees. This is but one factory of a Beligan Conglomerate (Herstal) which will continue to manufacture what "Winchester's" it wants to till the Olin agreement expires next year. It will be up for grabs (re-newal) at that time. It is more of a plant closing than a death, though the models 70,94, and 1300 would appear terminal. Many manufacturers offer Model 70 clones which are made in some cases to closer tolerances, making "better" rifles. Not too many folks will miss the 1300 and the Model 94's, well the used ones are pretty nice and affordable if you got to shoot that style. Sad day none the less.

Don't worry, there will always be a "Winchester" for sale -market forces will see to that. At some unspecified point in the future prices will be so ridiculously high that someone will produce the model 70 once again. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Having Serius satalite radio in the car, I listened to NRA News on tuesday. The big dog from USRA was on the show and flatly stated that the winchester 70, 94 and 1300 WOULD NOT be produced at any other plant and WERE NOW OUT OF PRODUCTION. Thus, unless the guy is flat out lying to NRA members, they are toast!

Inasmuch as USRAC will never produce the model(s) 70, 94, and 1300 again, I believe him, however they do not own the "Winchester" name, Olin does. Ultimately USRAC has no control over what the future might bring.

quote:

The announcement can also be a union busting ploy as well.....

I think you are on to something here. Get rid of the union and take back control of the company and the work force. Have a one on one employee/employer relationship without the legalized extortion from the unions and get back to the business of manufacturing firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by steve4102:

quote:

The announcement can also be a union busting ploy as well.....

I think you are on to something here. Get rid of the union and take back control of the company and the work force. Have a one on one employee/employer relationship without the legalized extortion from the unions and get back to the business of manufacturing firearms.

None of the companies that I designed and built automated and semi automated production lines for were Unionized. The automation removed the vast majority of direct labor related costs and still these lines once completed and proven were sent off shore.

The indirect, non union, supervision, and technical and non tech ( materials, purchsing, scheduling, production controll,etc.)support and MEDICAL costs are more manageable in let us say India or Malasia than they are here.

In the era of rapid communication it is no task to administrate a business spread out accross the world. For a time at least these administraters and marketing groups can be headquartered in the US and knock down the large bucks (Great American Greed Factor). Even they ,however , will be adversely affected, eventually, and that has already started.

Yes unions are a cost factor but compared to medical and direct and indirect shipping costs they are small.Tonight's news may cover a sensational union negotiation but how often do you hear the media tell you of the $1500 dollar increase to ship an off shore produced mill from LA to Denver?

With some of the biggest cost increases in our [USA] society being perscription drugs, fuel and gambling, where do you think we're going? It's the big money funnel for sure.

I talked to one of the guys at Ellwood Epps(big Canadian dealer) this morning, he was of the opinion that the m70 would probably be relicensed and be made in japan when OLIN's current deal with USRAC actually expirss next year.

I do know where I can get an brand new in the box Kimber in 7mm-08 for $700.00. I will pay that before I get a ruger or a winchester.

Some more info on Winchester:
http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15948738...dept_id=566835&rfi=6

I really don't see the need for much grief for the loss of Winchester. I have three that I bought used and were a great price. Two model 70's and a 94. My Browning A-Bolt puts the two 70's to shame in workmanship and smoothness. I must say that Marlin has a better lever rifle than the 94, so it's no great loss for me.

Classic case of demand not keeping the doors open.

quote:

Originally posted by bill r:
Its about what I read in a magazine some where I don't understand Ruger going up with CZ out there .
Bill

I am told that Ruger makes ~7% profit on their firearms business and ~30% on their investment casting business. Also, that if their firearms don't begin to make more $$, then the firearms plants will be converted to investment casting plants. That's third hand so take it with a grain or three of salt. I switched to CZ'z about a year ago and sold/traded all my Winnies except a Model 94 17 HMR...that one is just tooooo fun!

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
Inasmuch as USRAC will never produce the model(s) 70, 94, and 1300 again, I believe him, however they do not own the "Winchester" name, Olin does. Ultimately USRAC has no control over what the future might bring.

Olin own the Winchester name and many of the gun-specific trademarks, but do they own the actual rights to the design of the Model 70, Model 94, and Model 1300?

I don't think so. I don't think Herstal would have been that stupid.