LE270--I was agreeing with everything you said---150 grain bullet and 4064---then got to the part about game smaller than elk? I used it on moose and it wasnt a matter of whizz bang look at the velocity. Too light? Lots are using .270's with 130 grainers.

Savage, I suspect you may be right, but load testing will tell for sure. I am dissapointed since my other rifles are more accurate... I'm guessing that It may take some effort to get it to shoot better. The trigger is adjusted to 3.5 pounds with no creep, the next step would be either glass bedding the stock or as I mentioned buying an after market 'glass stock, though I don't care for them much. I'm not realy sure weather to free float the barrel or to leave some pressure at the fore end tip.



I may try to limit my shooting to 3 shot groups too, so that whip barrel can have plenty of time to cool between groups.



Firstshot, nice groups. I may have to try 4831, though I may lean toward the Hodgdon SC version. Realy like how Hodgdon extreem powders have been working out in my other rifles.

Since you are locked into the 180 grain weight, by all means try a different powder. The IMR 4064 does very well for me with about 48 grains for the std '06, and the IMR 4831 is best in my '06 Ackley. Both with the Nosler BT. I for one haven't had the partition accuracy problem which is currently being bantered about the forums. The Interbond on the other hand is a bit more challenging, like VLD's were. Seated to touch the rifling they fly true. Work up to the load and change only one variable at a time and enlightenment may come your way . Good shooting.

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but are you just trying one charge weight of one powder with one bullet? A friend of mine does that, he can't figure out why he can't get any accuracy. I've repeatedly told him to work up from a starting load to max, looking for group tightening. He just won't listen.

I went through a box of 165 30 cal interbonds and a lot of different powders finding a load for my 300 WSM. I settled on a over max load of H 4831 SC that produced 1/2 inch average 3 shot groups at 100 yds. In this case, the interbonds needed to be pushed hard. I think they act like a tough, hard bullet.





For the 06, I've settled on accurate XMR 4350. It's an old Herters bolt rifle stocked in a full length manlicker walnut stock. Nosler 165 bt's shoot one inch all day long.

My brother-in-law's Remmy 06 was doing the same thing. It refused to group no matter what load we fed it. Turns out that the fore end was pushing sideways on the barrel. We scraped away a little wood and wah-lah it started shooting into 1 inch or better with most of whatever it is fed.

griz, I've been using IMR 4350 exclusivley with various primers and a half dozen different bullets, and varying the charge between 55-57 grains. I've been loading the bullets out closer to the lands lately (3.31-3.37" coal), which puts 'em out way past the canelure. Oddly enough, my best load has been with Hornady Round nose slugs seated in on the canelure (3.21" coal), but that one groups just ~2" or slightly less on average.

Another interesting thing I've noticed is that velocity varries so much with a given load. For example the Remington Pointed Core-lokt 180s go about 2570fps and the 180 Interbonds are going 2720, both with 56 grains IMR 4350 and CCI 250 primers. Niether shoot well.

How do these look to you?







I'll say this, the 168 Triple Shock will do ANYTHING that ANY lead 180 Bullet will do to game.



The Triple Shock is becoming my go to bullet for best accuracy. And what it will do to game is certain. Those target squares are 1/2" but I guess you could already tell that. Plus, this target got rained on that day so the paper was tearing when I removed it from the cardboard box. When I dried out the paper and pushed the tears forward on that triple shock load, it actually measured .40. Only 12 grains less bullet weight for that 168 triple shock but the added penetration is all you'd need.

Hey Doc,try that RL 22 60-62gr with the 180 Triple Shocks. I got sub MOA groups with that combo also, at 2750fps.

Geronimo

Wonder if a little glass bedding would do the trick?

I had a problem shooter Model 70 and a little bit of glass bedding put it into a respectable shooter.
Caliber was 243.

Cheaper than a synthetic stock and also keep that nice looking Wood Stock on the Mountain rifle.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

I'll try anything. Just curious, have you noticed that Re22 is really a great powder for the .06 with heavier bullets too? I've always liked it for my .06's and 270's.

I'll order some 180TSX tomorrow from Midway.

I found my old "pet loads" notebook that has been lost since 1995. On the 30.06 section I have over 15 combinations using Re22 in 5 different 30.06 guns, all bolt actions and various brands, and various 165, 180, and 200 grain bullets. Even the Speer 180 spitzer grouped .23" with 4 shot strings from a factory Browning Composite Stalker.

By the way, how is managed care treating you docs up your way? Any reviewers misusing medical guidelines for precerts or procedures or patient care?

We have surgeons here that haven't been paid for approved procedures and it has been greater than 1 year. Especially spine surgeries or brain surgeries. United Health Care approved an anterior communicating artery aneurysm surgery in March of 2003. Bill hasn't been paid yet.

First of all, I don't like to talk about managed care and guns at the same time... gives me too many bad ideas! Hope that answers your question.

On the 30-06 issue, I have a response to a thread, in this section, posted by Pop. I just returned from Zimbabwe where I was using my '06 as my light rifle. The load was the same as listed in the other thread. I call your attention to the admonitions in that thread because I had never been able to get Barnes X bullets to shoot worth a hoot in any of my guns. I have a couple of buddies who won't use anything else, and I've seen their groups, usually sub MOA. It wasn't until they began to emphasize the point of cleaning all the previous copper and seating .050" off the lands that I began to get good groups. Give 'em a try. BTW I got my .338WM shooting .38" with Barnes 225gr TSX's. Looks like I'm becoming a convert.

I'm also becoming an RL addict. There's damn few calibers that can't get good groups from RL 15,19, or 22.

Geronimo

How did you do on your hunt?

Never any shortage of 30-06 replies, but here's what has worked great for me with two M700 Muontain Rifles, one ole, one new, and a Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker. This is the most consistent and accurate load I have found that suits all these rifles.

168 Gr. Barnes Triple Shock
52 Grains Varget,
Winchester WLR Primer
COL 3.265
Velocity on the Mountain Rifle's 22' Barrels 2800fps with an extreme spread of 15fps

This shoots 1 MOA in all three rifles.

Good Luck

I have some Varget. I'll give it a try for grins even though my current groups would not justify the need.

Well an update is in order I guess, as this thread is still going strong. I worked up some loads with 180 Sierra Pro Hunters and Hornady 180 RNs (the two most accurate bullets to date) using H-4350 (57gr), RL-19 (60gr) and WW-760 (54gr). All the loads were the same except the powder (CCI 250/Rem Brass). Fired just one group of each as an elimination process.



My first group (with H-4350/Sierra) was encouraging going into an even 1" for 5 shots, but went downhill from there into the usual 2"+ range. The RL-19/Sierra loads did ok with 4 of 5 going into 1.5" and the 3 shot Hornady group going 1 3/4". So I think I've got something to work with now. Problem is I ran myself out of Sierra bullets. So back to Graff & Sons I go... Maybe I'll try some of the other bullets mentioned as well. I wonder if the accuracy drops off when the barrel get a bit too hot?



By the way, velocities were not too great, with the H-4350 going about 2615 fps and the RL-19 doing 2635. Not great, but it'll do if the accuracy is there.

What were your results with the ball powder?

Best velocity in the 06 comes from H414, if it will shoot and usually it will....

H and IMR-4831 always seem to work well for velocity and accuracy...

IMR4064 is a grand old standby for the 06, as is 4895, usually extremely accurate...

You have to try them all and find your nitch with that rifle, what shoots in these other rifles means nothing to your gun..but the above always works for me...I usually get good results from 4350 but you said it doesn't shoot in your gun..

Maybe your guns inletting or ? needs tweaking, just a thought as 4350 usually shoots well. Anyway try the above and keep this in mind....

It is imperative that you allow the barrel to cool off completely to give each load a fair shake.

I agree with the comments on H414 and IMR4064.

Doc, can you share some of your loads? I picked up a used Savage package gun. Looks like it came from Walmart, but a hundred under their price and may have had a whole box of ammo shoot through it. With factory ammo I'm getting 5 round groups right around an inch with two or three touching. The wide shots are mine I haven't been to the range in about six months. I'm looking for heavy bullet loads, most of the ammo I've found is 165 grain. I don't have a specific use in mind yet just planning ahead with a heavy bullet.

Sure. I'll check my load books tonight and targets and post again within 12 hours.

so would I.

I agree that many guns will shoot better if you let them cool between shots, so do you let them cool between shots when hunting?

I think it best to shoot a 5 shot group then see what you have, then let it cool, at least on a hunting rifle...A good hunting rifle will shoot to same POI hot or cold and hold the same group average...A lot of them won't, in which case they go down the road around here.

I hate a finicky or quirkey gun, regardless of how good it shoots on ocassion, I'd rather have an "honest" 2 inch gun that shoots clovers, holds zero and shoots that way hot or cold...

Actually I should qualify my post or explain it better. I wrote that you should let the barrel cool between 'LOADS' and that meant your shot strings. If you shoot 5 per load, great. Just let the barrel cool before the next 5 shot string. That is what I meant. Sorry if it was not clear. I do not let the barrel cool between SHOTS unless it is a new gun and I'm breaking in the barrel.

Regarding hunting and shooting. I'm so damn good that I've only needed one shot per animal. KIDDING!!!!!!

I wish.

When hunting, I do let it cool until the next round is loaded, but that generally doesn't take too long with a BAR....

firstshot

Good one. Me too but on the bolt action. What's that come to? About 2 seconds to cool??

It has lots of time to cool during hunting. Shoot 1 round, gut, pack and go home.

Sam, you have a PM

You may want to try 165 grain pellets. I get <MOA 3 shot groups with 165 grain Nosler Partitions, Hornady SSTs or Hornady Interbonds. These all shoot well with 57 grains of IMR 4350.

I haven't developed an 180 frain load because I have a 300 RUM with which I shoot 180 and 200 grain pellets

Guys, I'm wondering if some of you might offer up some help with my 30-06. It's a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle with a 1-4 Leupold scope. Groups average about 2" which I'd like to improve on. My load had been 56 grains of IMR 4350, and I've tried it with several different 180 grain bullets. A real dissapointment has been the Hornady Interbonds which I can't get to group into less than 4-5".

What I'm looking for are suggestions as to which powders and loads to try next with 180 grain slugs. I've got several cans of powder on hand including RL-15, RL-19, H-4350, H-4895, IMR 4064 and Varget.

I expect to try the RL-19 and H-4350 next to see if that improves things at all. I really like the extreme powders that Hodgdon produces, and have begun to use Varget in my 308 and H-4895 in my 348 win.

Beside swapping powders I'm also thinking about putting a fiberglass stock on it. I put a Brown Precision stock on my Remington 660, 308 back in the '80s and it made a huge improvement in the accuracy.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I feel your pain w/ the Interbonds, can't get them to shoot in my .280 either. I load my son's 06 w/ RL19 or RL22 under a 180gr bullet. 1moa is the norm. for his factory stock Ruger MKII, @ about 2750fps.

Try the new Barnes 180gr. Tripple Shocks with either H-4350 or RL 22. I get just under 1 MOA at 2750fps.

Geronimo

A favorite load of mine for the 30-06 is : 165 Nos Bal tip, 60 gr of H 4831, and CCI 250 primer. I used this load in several 30-06 bolt rifles and Dad's 760. Only Mom's 742 refused to shoot this load. The 165 gr Nosler Bal Tip is devestating on Idaho mule deer, it has always given me one shot kills.
I see that you asked about 180 gr bullets, my choice would be a powder which filled the case to capacity or even a compressed load. The powders which fit this criteria range in speed from the 4350's on the fast side to IMR4831, H4831, and possibly H1000 or RL22 on the slow side.
When developing an accurate hunting load, I have never been able to improve on the Balistic Tips. The 180 gr Balistic Tip is supposed to be fairly solidly constructed, and I would choose it or the 165 for any type of deer.
I believe that elk deserve an even heavier or more solidly constructed bullet. I have had good luck developing accurate loads for the 30-06 using 165 and 180 gr Barnes X or Winchester Fail Safe bullets in combination with IMR 4831 or H4831. One of my all time favorite heavy loads in the 30-06 consisted of the Hornady 190 gr SPBT over IMR4831 & a CCI250 at 2660 fps. This 190 gr bullet is responsible for a couple of the tightest groups my rifles have ever fired. But it is somewhat tiring to shoot after 40 or 50 rounds in an afternoon. Depending on recoil tolerance I would choose any of these if the quarry were elk.
I wish you good luck with your load developement.

I suggest you try 150 gr. bullets -- Sierra boattails are usually quite accurate in most guns -- with 52 or 53 grains of IMR 4064. (That is a hot load and should be considered max.; start lower, at say 48 or 50 gr., and work up.) I like Winchester brass and WLR primers. Some 30-06 rifles seem to do best with 150 gr. bullets. 150 gr. bullets will be quite adequate from a 30-06 for any game animal smaller than an elk.

150's suck in a 30-06!!! Other than a boy howdy look what I can do velocity, its pointless to use them. Better to buy a .300 savage. Try 57grs of IMR 4350 with any good 165gr bullet.
Regardless of what the folks say, in those lite, whippy barrels, 2" ain't too shabby.

I like 150's fine from an 06. Them and 180 bring out the true nature of the round, I save the 165's for my 300 Savage or 308.

After reading an article that Barsness did several months ago Ive been thinking about trying some ramshot powders. The results Ive gotten from other ball powders have been excellent as far as accuracy,consistency and a low SD. Cant beat the metering qualities either. According to the article the Ramshot line no longer has the temprature sensitive and dirty burning characteristics of the other ball powders. Maybe someone else can shed some light on Ramshot as I havent tried it yet.

Ive used W-760 and got significant gains in both accuracy and velocity over the old standby of 56 gns of IMR 4350.