I recently acquired two cans of H-570 and two cans of H-870 powders. Both are in paper cans with the metal-push down caps. I have seen load data for the H-870 but none for the H-570 stuff. Anyone have any experience with either?

You'd most likely get more answers if you asked that on a .50 Browning forum somewhere. Not a lot of handoaders appear use it in the smaller cartridges...even the hunting rifle magnums of large capacity. It is too slow burning to produce top performance in most of them.

Although definitely not identical, the two powders are sort of different versions of the same approximate burning speed. The H-570 is an extruded ("stick") powder, while the H-870 is a spherical ("ball") powder of similar burning rate.

I have tried cases completely full of each in the .264 Win Mag, .300 Wby Mag, .340 Wby Mag, and the .475 A&M Mag. It was too slow burning and produced too little velocity to keep wasting primers with either powder....at least, that was my conclusion at the time.

It might work okay in something like a 7 m/m STW with the heaviest 7m/m bullets, but I would bet it is too slow for really good performance in even that.

I sure wouldn't try any reduced loads of either in anything. I suspect that might be begging for an S.E.E. experience.

I sold all of mine (48 pounds) for $3 per pound to a .50 BMG shooter about 10 years ago.

Just for the heck of it, I went down into my shop and dug out one of my old Hodgdon loading manuals...#16. (Incidentally, it is only 20 pages long, printed on 8-1/2" x 11"paper, and spiral bound.) I believe it was printed 'bout 1960 or '61, but it could have been a FEW years later. Seems I have owned it since the day after God invented dirt!

It reminds me of why I tried 570 & 870 to start with.

It shows 97 grains of H-870 with the 200 gr. Nosler Partition in the .300 Wby as producing 3,140 fps, and

the same charge behind the 220 gr. Sierra as delivering 3,099 fps at the muzzle.

It also lists 92 grains behind the 250 gr. Barnes original bullets in the .300 Wby as pushing them out of the muzzle at 2,791 fps.

But I was sure never able to reach ANY of those speeds from my 26" barreled M 70 .300 WBY. with it.

The Hodgdon manual says those speeds were gotten in their Model 70 .300 Wby, but it must have had a couple of hundred fps faster barrel than mine. And, mine had (still has) a 2" longer barrel than their's did.

If you have a specific cartridge you want to try it in, post it here and I'll look up what Hodgdon said about it in that cartridge and post it here.

BTW, for H-570, the same manual shows that in the .300 Wby, the following were recommended as top loads:

200 gr. Nosler, 94 grains, 3,083 fps

220 gr. Norma, 94 grains, 3,035 fps

All these loads were with Win LR primers; all H-870 loads in Wby (Norma) brass, and all the H-570 loads in fire-formed Winchester brass.

What are you wanting to load?

Rae,

H-570 was my "go to" powder in .264 Win for many years. Its burning rate is so close to H-870 as to be indistiguishable (at least in the loads I tried). For whatever reason, H-570 always gave me better accuracy. Unfortunately, it's huge kernels make it like trying to stuff logs into a tiny .264" hole -- not too handy. But its velocities were always very consistent.

Unlike Alberta Canuck's experience, I found that I could easily reach maximum desired pressures before running out of powder space in the .264 using 140 grain bullets. My favorite load for many years was 72 grains of H-570 with a Speer 140 spitzer for 3,139 fps (24" bbl), measured with a good old paper screen Oehler Model 10 chronograph.. Most .264's will accept a little more than this. Capacity in Winchester brass is about 75 grains or so. Obviously, spherical H-870 will pack a little more in.

I did try H870 in a 7mm STW and actually found it a little on the fast side (for heavier bullets). My go-to powder for either the .264 or 7mm STW these days is surplus WC-872 which is somewhat slower than H-870.

If you can find a copy of Speer Manual #7, it's got quite a few loads for both powders. Or tell me what calibers you are interested in and I'll scan those pages and email them to you.

Just for kicks, I went back and found my copy of the Hodgdon Loading Manual No. 1 and looked in it.(It is titled "Basic Loading Data for Hodgdon's Modern Powders", no date given anywhere, but I know I bought that little manual in 1959.)

I haven't tried Googling that title and don't have time right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone has pasted the whole thing up on line somewhere. It is only 13 type-written pages long, and cost 25 cents new, according to the price on the cover. (It too is spiral bound 8-1/2" X 11").

Anyway, in the first edition, the data was the same as I posted above. The only difference was that instead of calling the .300 WBY a Weatherby, it was titled ".300 Improved". Same exact data, though.

Another fascinating curiosity, I note that on the inside back cover, there is this:

"Experimental and odd lots of powder suitable for rifle reloading, case forming, fireworks, and rocket, etc.....H-8, H915, H60, H202, H57, H155, X71, and Rocket......1 lb.bag $0.35"

"Minimum Rocket powder order 50 lb., other experimental powders 10 lb."

Talk about a different era! Guess all the product liability lawyers hadn't used their GI Bill benefits to go to law school yet....

Stoney, maybe my lots (H570 and H-870) were just slower than many others,but they didn't produce results matching the published data for me. I know their H-4895 also varied all over the place, from about IMR-3031 speed to about IMR-4350 burning rate. That was just one of the reasons I bought my original H-4831 in 50 and 100 lb. kegs....to avoid variations as much as possible.

My first chrono'ing of them was with a Hollywood chrono, but then I checked them again years later with an Oehler Model 31 (left overs of the same ammo) and got the same results.

Rifles and chronos....sometimes they drive me....!

S-Creek,& A-Canuck, Thanks for the info offers. I made a purchase on these cans as well as some "old" H-4895, IMR 4350, H-4895, IMR 4064, metal canned Hercules 2400 and some others that I can't remember at the moment. All from a gentleman who purchased it, along with lead shot, cast bullets and Mec reloading equipt. from a widow woman, for $50. (He was a shotgunner.....I'm not.)

I'm afraid that I may not have anything that will like the powders. The only magnums I own are a 270WSM,300WSM,338WM and a 375H&H. My 338WM does seem to like RL-22 over the acclaimed RL-19 but as the 870/570 powders being much slower, I doubt it would work. I just remembered that I also received some old Lyman and speer manuals in the puchase. I need to check them out and see what they say.

FYI - When I was a kid, (1960s) our local hardware store used to sell dynamite over the counter. Yes, it was a different era!

Thanks again.

The only possibility for either H870 or H570 I see in your line up of cartridges would be the .270 WSM using 150 grain bullets. If you wanted to give that a try just for grins, you might stumble upon a usable load.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The only possibility for either H870 or H570 I see in your line up of cartridges would be the .270 WSM using 150 grain bullets. If you wanted to give that a try just for grins, you might stumble upon a usable load.

S-Creek, any suggestions on where to start. Sounds like I can't get too much in the case. I guess I should call Hogden and see what they say.

I guess I am an oddball, but my go to powder in my 7MM Rem Mag is WC 860, which is the commercial designation for either H870 or AA 8700, take your pick. I am not worried about absolute top velocity; I want an accurate round that will carry the mail, and that load does it, shooting one-hole groups at sighting-in range. I use a Fed 215 primer to ignite 79 grains behind Nosler 162-grain orignal Solid Bases...