Are you one of those folks who resents having to go back and forth to the range testing loads?

This quote to follow is from a shooting friend of mine in England and was received this morning.

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"As you have guessed, powder prices have crossed $50 per lb, and gas $10 per gallon, so the cost of shooting including getting to and from the
range has soared well past the point when it became a rich man's pastime. That explains this interest in powders that can achieve
moderate velocities with cast bullets with relatively low charges.

The cost of hiring a target at Bisley is about $120 per day ($200 if a marker is hired), so shooting alone is often not an option. And shooting with a club means that one is limited to whatever discipline the club shoots. Target Rifle is shot from 300 - 1000yds, so the opportunities to shoot at 200yds or 100yds are relatively rare, hence my search for
load combinations that are good at 300yds and beyond with cast bullets."

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Makes things look pretty good here in the USA SO FAR. Also tells you why we need to act to keep the government on our side, or to get one that is.

Final comment...if any of you can suggest loads for the .303 British using AA 1680, I'd sure appreciate you sending them to me so I can forward them to him. It is one of the more economical powders he can get through the British NRA...and being a fast burner gives more loads per pound than many others.

Trail Boss should be a big seller over there!

a member of the forum from London was asking me about loads for a 22.250.. he said that they had a requirement that the MV couldn't exceeed 1200 fps on any firearm at their range...

the liberals have truly screwed up the world..

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
the liberals have truly screwed up the world..

Unfortunately they’re still working on it here.

AC, AA1680 is of similar burning rate to W296 & Imr4227 so would be OK in a 22Hornet but none of my manuals list anything in that range for a 303, other than Hodgdon which lists H4227 as giving a 100gr bullet 1666fps with 17 grains of powder MAX for a reduced load, Speer lists 20 grs SR4759 with a 100gr bullet at 1980fps MAX & 150 gr bullet @ 1925fps with 25grs SR4759 MAX, but for full power loads 3031 seems to be as fast as they go. I would be very wary of using it.
Steve

Guess why I spent the weekend building a backstop for a 100yard rimfire facility on my field!

I'm pretty lucky, I live in the middle of the family farm. I have a bench and a back stop 100 yards from my back door.

However, powder, primers and bullets are much more expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by Shinzo:
AC, AA1680 is of similar burning rate to W296 & Imr4227 so would be OK in a 22Hornet but none of my manuals list anything in that range for a 303, other than Hodgdon which lists H4227 as giving a 100gr bullet 1666fps with 17 grains of powder MAX for a reduced load, Speer lists 20 grs SR4759 with a 100gr bullet at 1980fps MAX & 150 gr bullet @ 1925fps with 25grs SR4759 MAX, but for full power loads 3031 seems to be as fast as they go. I would be very wary of using it.
Steve

Shinzo-

Your post is very similar to the post I sent him when he first inquired about using it. (I use it in my .22 K-Hornet, but told him I wouldn't even consider using it in a case with the capacity or bullet weight of a .303 because of the possibility of triple or even greater charges, and because of the burning rate. I also told him it would end up giving him insufficient velocity for really good results at the long ranges he is often forced to fire at.)

But, his answer was one that is hard to argue with. He is trying to identify loads he can use, with every powder. Comes a time when a guy has to use what he can get and can afford, and that is his situation in GB right now....getting ready in case that NRA provided powder becomes all he CAN get.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Shinzo-

Your post is very similar to the post I sent him when he first inquired about using it. (I use it in my .22 K-Hornet, but told him I wouldn't even consider using it in a case with the capacity or bullet weight of a .303 because of the possibility of triple or even greater charges, and because of the burning rate. I also told him it would end up giving him insufficient velocity for really good results at the long ranges he is often forced to fire at.)

But, his answer was one that is hard to argue with. He is trying to identify loads he can use, with every powder. Comes a time when a guy has to use what he can get and can afford, and that is his situation in GB right now....getting ready in case that NRA provided powder becomes all he CAN get.

Ok, thinking outside the square a bit now, I figured that if info is not there for a .303 in most manuals, the .308 Winchester & the 30/40 Krag are cartridges of similar size & capacity, I would be happy to use krag loads in a 303 for similar bullet weights, I would start 5-10% lower for 308Win loads, so this gives us from the Speer #10 manual, for 308 Win, for a 110 gr bullet max load of 29 grains IMR4227 for 2469 fps,for a 130 gr bullet, 27 grains max for 2260 fps. I would start with about 23 grains of AA1680 with a 123 gr .311 (7.62x39) bullet.
From the Lyman manual for the 30/40, some cast loads, 113gr bullet, 25 grains max IMR 4227 for 2061fps, 151 gr bullet,24 grs IMR4227 for 1934 fps. For the 308 Win, 151 gr bullet, 31 grs MAX for 2503 fps. Looking at these I think the suggested start load I mentioned above is a reasonable place to start, but I stress that I haven't tried any of these loads myself so entirely on your correspondents head be it to do so. Care & attention & rigorous checking of powder loads,perhaps with a depth gauge, before bullet seating should prevent double loads.
Its got me thinking tho, I have some 123 gr projectiles & some 4227, might be some good plinking loads for the kids out of it?
Steve

Thanks for your efforts Shinzo - that suggestion of 23 grains as a starting point matches pretty well with what he was going to start with, conjured out of his own head. He was going to begin with 20 grains. I will send him a copy of your post.

BTW, if I may ask, how is your current gov't's views/attitude regards firearms these days? Not as bad as the
Aussies, I hope....

I haven't been to your neck of the woods since '79 when I shot in the Palma matches there at Trentham (Upper Hutt).

Was going to buy a private island in the middle of Lake Rotorura and immigrate, but your government of those days nixed the whole deal when they found out I was over 40 years old (by just TWO months then). They seemed to feel that somehow folks over 40 couldn't ever pay in enough taxes to make up for the social benefits they might live to receive. So they wouldn't let ANYONE other than an Aussie or a Maori in permanently at over age 40 in those days who wasn't going to open a business and employ enough Kiwis. I didn't want to go into business; felt I could contribute lots of lucre in other ways. So I went to another Common-wealth country instead. (Almost went to Rhodesia, but am darned glad I didn't.)

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:


BTW, if I may ask, how is your current gov't's views/attitude regards firearms these days? Not as bad as the
Aussies, I hope....

I haven't been to your neck of the woods since '79 when I shot in the Palma matches there at Trentham (Upper Hutt).

Was going to buy a private island in the middle of Lake Rotorua and immigrate, but your government of those days nixed the whole deal when they found out I was over 40 years old (by just TWO months then). They seemed to feel that somehow folks over 40 couldn't ever pay in enough taxes to make up for the social benefits they might live to receive. So they wouldn't let ANYONE other than an Aussie or a Maori in permanently at over age 40 in those days who wasn't going to open a business and employ enough Kiwis. I didn't want to go into business; felt I could contribute lots of lucre in other ways. So I went to another Common-wealth country instead. (Almost went to Rhodesia, but am darned glad I didn't.)

They have some strange ideas about a lot of things, being in coalition with the green party would account for a fair bit of that I reckon but firearms is something they have left alone, there was talk of going back to registering every firearm you owned but I think the police probably told whoever brought it up not to be so damned stupid, it been proven all over the world that it doesn't do zip to solve crime. I think we probably have some of the most workable firearms laws in the world, long may it continue. In essence they work on licencing the owner, if you're deemed fit to own firearms you can do pretty much as you please, special licences for mil style semi auto & pistol, & even tougher for collectors with full auto & big stuff. (the requirements make Fort Knox look like exchange & mart) Need licence to buy ammo, but not reloading components (go figure) Licence will be revoked or suspended for involvement in crime, domestic violence or certain types of abberrant or pscyhotic behaviour. All in all it just plain works.
Sorry you missed out on getting into NZ, I sure like it here though the middle of Lake Rotorua (Rotten rua ) wouldn't be my pick but then again I'm a mainlander (South Islander) & we know we live in the best place in the world ( we're also incredibly modest ) Hope your friend does OK with his loads, its certainly got me plotting & planning.
Steve

Shinzo -

Thanks for the info. I cefrtainly agree with your choice of locales. The island in Lake Rotarura was to keep my wife happy. She likes cities, and she is a horse fanatic...mostly Gran Prix jumpers. Anyway, the island had about 440 useable, pretty flat acres, and would have been close enough she could occasionally zip off to Aukland for a shopping frenzy.

I'm with you, though, much prefer South Island, including odd trips over to the West side by whirly-bird. One of my better friends of the time lived quite a bit S of Christchurch,so I had planned on getting a cabin in his area or putting a caravan on his place, so I could go there often to enjoy the shooting/hunting.

(Rotarura does smell foul, doesn't it?)

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

(Rotarura does smell foul, doesn't it?)

Yup!
Steve

British laws are proof that many of it's more intelligent citizens left for the new world 300 years ago.

AC. I've used 16.0 gr. of #2400 with bullets up to 220 gr. in the 30-06 and the same load with 180 to 190 gr. bullets in the .308 I've also used .17.0 gr. of H-4227 with those same bullets in the above cartridges. I only bring this up because, if the AA1680 is in the same burning range as 4227, those loads should be a good starting point, working up and down about grain to find best accuracy.
There was an article available on the web about handloading cast bullets for military rifles by "Ed" Harris. As I keep losing stuff on the computer, I took the trouble to make a copy. If you're interested, I could make you a copy to send your friend. Mr. Harris said he liked those loads for 300 meter shooting. I once shot at the pig silhouettes at the 300 meter mark at my range and if I hit them at the top one-third of the body, they would fall over. One load from my .308 did 1.5 MOA at 200 yards from a Winchester M70 Youth Ranger that I restocked with a Ramline so that it would fit me. Cheap Tasco 3x9 scope and a good trigger job. The same load from a savage 110S silhouette rifle will do 2.5 MOS at 300 yards. As long as conditions are good, that is little wind to have to mess with, those loads will shoot great out to 300 yards.
Paul B.