Just beginning to load for belted cases - 300 H&H and have read so much about head spacing on the shoulder/belt I am just confused.

First, this rifle shoots factory ammo, no problem. I am using new nosler brass to reload. Brass is a .02 short of "trim" but that should not be a problem. Brass has been primed and was NOT FL sized. Fired three and cases were hard to eject and would not chamber. I neck sized the cases and they would chamber but not without some tension. Next I FL sized the cases and they now will feed. Is any of the above a sign of "head space" problem. Are there special precautions to take when loading belted vs non-belted cases?

Yes, I have read all the "Search" subjects and I am more confused than before?

Thanks for sharing.

I don't see a headspace problem as you have described.....I see a reloading problem and suggest you confine your reloading to FL resizing everytime.

Your reloaded rounds should never be hard to chamber.

If your cases were hard to eject, you have a pressure problem. Lighten your load a bit.

If your loads aren't excessively hot, you should have no problem just neck sizing.

In a tapered case like the 300 H&H Magnum, the cases tend to stretch a lot with reloading. At each reloading, make sure you run a bent wire (a paper clip works well) down the inside of the case to check for a groove near the head that means head separation is imminent; obviously discard defective cases.

The reloads were with H4350 66 gr, Fed 215 primers using 200 gr TSX FB bullet qt -.05 from lands. Most "books" do not show this to be a maximum load but do plan on backing down to 64-65 and start over as I agree the 66 gr must be hot for this pre 64.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I agree that the loads sound too hot. What was the load in question?? There have been reports at times that nosler brass is tougher than other brands but it might be at the expense of internal capacity. I remember a guy tried nosler 300 wby brass with a load that had worked with other brass and got the same result you did. Do you have a chrono to check velocity and rework the load. I would start at least 3-4 grains lighter and work up.

Quickload predicts you might be at about 68,000 psi. If you combine being pretty "warm" already with the fact that this brass might have less capacity I can see why you might be where you are at. Also....my later lots of H4350 have been pretty potent....getting even more velocity than my IMR 4350.

The real cause of most case stretching is FL sizing the way the instructions tell us to do it. That works to make functional ammo but over-resizes the shoulder postion, insureing stretching when it's fired.

First, ignore the belt and any idea of "touching the shell holder", etc. Insert your FL die and back it off the shell holder a quarter turn or so. Size a case and chamber it, it should be too tight. Turn the die down 1/16 th of a turn, no more, size the case and try to chamber it again. Each 1/16th turn sizes the case an additional .0045", almost the full range of common headspace limits, so don't turn further than that for each test. Repeat testing until the case chambers snug but easily.

This sizing die adjustment method applies to ALL bottle-neck cases, ignoring any belt or rim or shell holder dimensions. The normal set-up instructions for a sizing die are the simplist possible, given so that even a mechanical clutz can make rounds that chamber and fire but not for best accuracy or case life.

The frequently seen suggestion of turning a FL die down in half or even quarter turn increments move the die by an excessively gross amount. That's far too much change for an ideal set-up.

Very good info. Kraky did you assume I was using the Fed 215 mag primer in your "quickload"? It was also 80 degrees and 95% humidity.

I am beginning to understand the adjustment of the FL die.

Many thanks.

QC doesn't actually predict by primer brand. I guess it assumes you are matching a proper primer with the case you are using. If you decide you like reloading get a stoney point (now I guess hornady bought them out) headspace bushing kit. I have one and it is a GREAT TOOL that will never wear out and will tell you lots about how to set up dies. They are about $30 and will be one of the best tool buys you make.

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
If you decide you like reloading get a stoney point (now I guess hornady bought them out) headspace bushing kit. I have one and it is a GREAT TOOL that will never wear out and will tell you lots about how to set up dies. They are about $30 and will be one of the best tool buys you make.

Could not agree more (as usual with kraky). I don't have a 300 H & H but do reload for a lot of 300 win mags. New belted cases tend to have a lot of headspace. For example I measured the following with a Hornady Headspace Gauge

New 300 win mag WW cases - 4.250"
Fired and PFLR'ed cases - 4.272"

That is a shoulder movement of .022"

New 7 mag WW cases - 4.101"
Once fired WW case - 4.119"
3 times fired and PFLR'ed - 4.122"

That is a shoulder movement of .021"

See the shoulder does not move all the way to contact with the shoulder on the first firing. You should be able to neck size only and not get a crush fit for 2 or 3 firings on a case.

By comparison in an unbelted case that does not "headspace on the shoulder", the brass manufacturers do not put in as much headspace:

New 30-06 Nosler cases - 4.039"
3 times fired and PFLR'ed - 4.050"

That is a shoulder movement of .011", about 1/2 the average belted case movement.

Now these measurements will depend largely upon your gun and the size of your chamber. There are no absolutes when it comes to chamber measurements.

The max load for a 200 gr bullet in a 300 H & H using H4350 is listed as 62.5 grains in the Nosler #5 manual. Nosler is conservative and I am sure that somewhere there is data that says you can shoot 66 grains but that may be the problem.

As far as "headspacing on the shoulder" there was this thread where I attempted to get everyone's opinion on what function the belt actually has. Seems the general consensus is that case manufacturers and gun manufacturers do not coordinate tolerances close enough for it to have much effect.

What you all are saying about headspaceing and the shoulder of a case is true for most "bottle necked" cases but the 300 H&H Magnum case is more of a tapered case. As such, the belt IS important for headspaceing, like it or not.

Believe Weatherby went to headspacing on shoulder because of issues like this, Jim C. has it correct. Strange thing, when some of my earlier 300 H-H rounds wouldn't fire, a more experienced reloader did a rap with brass mallet on both sides of shoulder, then chambered that round & it fired just fine.

I tried the “old size the case and try to chamber†it with my 375 H&H. After all, without gages this is the only way to set up your dies. Then I got the Sinclair belted magnum case gages and found just how inexact the method I was using. In my opinion, these are the only way to go.

This web site is really useful for showing how to use case gages. I recommend looking at the pictures, and it explains the special case gages needed for the belted cartridges.

http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm

I agree with Slamfire that adjusting the sizer by the "mash and try" method is not as easy as using a gage. However, it does work, and work pretty well given the inconsistancies of brass spring back variations, without an additional tool IF the user limits the die adjustments to 1/16 turn (.0045") or less.

I prefer the RCBS Case Mik to speed things up. When you use a fired case as the standard in it, adjusting sized case shoulders 2-4 thousants down seems to work well for hunting ammo.

And, while the .375 has very little shoulder, it does have a lot of taper which accomplishes the same thing as a shoulder - it effectively stops the case from going deeper into the chamber - and its FL sizer can be adjusted the same way.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
The real cause of most case stretching is FL sizing the way the instructions tell us to do it. That works to make functional ammo but over-resizes the shoulder postion, insureing stretching when it's fired.

First, ignore the belt and any idea of "touching the shell holder", etc. Insert your FL die and back it off the shell holder a quarter turn or so. Size a case and chamber it, it should be too tight. Turn the die down 1/16 th of a turn, no more, size the case and try to chamber it again. Each 1/16th turn sizes the case an additional .0045", almost the full range of common headspace limits, so don't turn further than that for each test. Repeat testing until the case chambers snug but easily.

This sizing die adjustment method applies to ALL bottle-neck cases, ignoring any belt or rim or shell holder dimensions. The normal set-up instructions for a sizing die are the simplist possible, given so that even a mechanical clutz can make rounds that chamber and fire but not for best accuracy or case life.

The frequently seen suggestion of turning a FL die down in half or even quarter turn increments move the die by an excessively gross amount. That's far too much change for an ideal set-up.

This method works most of the time, but not all of the time.

I have a 7MM Rem Mag that gave me absolute fits. You could turn the die all the way and the cases still wouldn't fit in the chamber. finally had to take some metal off the top of a shell holder in order to get the thing to work!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by muygrande:
The reloads were with H4350 66 gr, Fed 215 primers using 200 gr TSX FB bullet qt -.05 from lands. Most "books" do not show this to be a maximum load but do plan on backing down to 64-65 and start over as I agree the 66 gr must be hot for this pre 64.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

As we all know, all rifles are individuals, and what may prove to be quite mild in one might be over maximum in another, and vice-versa.

To set your die for optimum sizing, screw it into the press about 1/4 of a turn more than it was, size a case, and see how difficult it is to chamber the empty case and close the bolt. Keep doing this, turn in 1/4 turn, size a case, etc., until the bolt closes with just the slightest of "feel". Now lock the lock ring, and use this setting fropm now on to "FL resize" the case with minumum working of the brass. This will make the brass last longer due to minimizing working of the brass, and gives you a loaded round that will chamber easily. If your shell holder and sizing die are of the same make, hopefully you will not have to cut anything off of the top of the shellholder or bottom of the die to get it set right!

Never size a case any more than it takes to be able to just barely close the bolt w/o too much force on the bolt handle.

Gentlemen,

In our experience, it seems EVERY factory chambered belted magnum's chamber is cut too generously. This causes some problems when it comes to reloading the fired cases - one of which is that the cases do not last many reloads.

Because of this, on all the belted magnum rifles we build, we cut the chamber so that the bolt would close on an empty, new case. But would not close on the GO gage.

We have never had any factory loads not working in these rifles, and our cases last much longer when used in these rifles that when used in factory chambered one.