Motor oil doesn't work.

I have cleaned the powder fouling, and then the copper and then the motor oil.

I put a thick layer of motor oil in the bore, put the rifle in my car, and come the next day, 50% of the bore area is red.
It take 1/2 hour with Fitz to get most of it out.

TIA

Oil alone will trap moisture beneath, not dispell it and therefore use WD40 to coat stored engine, gun and other "raw" steel surfaces without fail. No worry even in high humidity storage.

Go tothe home page here at the forums and look under faq's. At the bottom of the list is a rust prevention test. WD 40 ranked average. Because of this test I just started using shooters choice rust prevent. After I got the can I see that it also says it is a "penetrant" and I like that.

I do use wd 40 as a cheap powder solvent before going after copper though.

Kraky,

I hear you. It does however displace water and sounds like the problem is moisture being trapped, it happens alot with freshly bored cylinders if they set for a while and then are coated with oil. Never happens with WD40.

Unless Saeed has some new test data, the Shooters Choice Rust Prevent rated top dog along with another brand I've never seen on a shelf before. The test was with a barrel set by the ocean marked on at 1" increments and several brands tested on the same tube in the same conditions. Great test, been using Rust Prevent ever since then, year and a half I think.

One thing about it though, it will trap water beads/moisture under it too if you spray it on in the rain or moist surface, got to be clean and dry first or I'm sure it would be horrible after a while. The stuff does attract a lot of crap, but does work better than anything I've evr used in the field.

My rifle is fouled with 2 or three shots before the hunting trip and muzzle is taped every morning for the day, then removed at night. Rifle is brought in the tent before it is ever warmed at all and covered with dry clthes to keep cool and free from condensation for the night.

Your right, I would never trust WD40 in the rain to protect the rifle, but for moderate envionment storage etc indoors it works perfect to rid moisture and hold off rust at the same time.

Clark... I just have a few comments about moly... depending on the carrier it comes in moly can be very hydroscopic. The reason you are seeing rust is that you have put oil over moly that contained water in it. Oftan when moly is suspended in oil it is less of a problem but still will attract moisture. If there are any good reasons to use moly on bullets/ in barrels, I dont know what they are. Its more of a hassel then its worth.

try some drilube,I think remington makes it.its a teflon coating,it supposedly bonds to the metal.

Moly coated bullets? That would explain alot, I thought you meant a chromoly barrel?

There are allot of rifles in the car.
There is only one with moly in the bore.
It is the one that rusts.
Other rifles without oil do not rust.

The rifle with moly and no or or with oil does not rust in the house.

It seems that for rust the requirements are:
1) moly in steel bore
2) rifle in the car

And then only the bore rusts.

A very, very long time ago I advised those who asked if they should use moly that it is hygroscopic...

Clark,

I'm using Barnes XLC's, I'm sure they have some amount of moly in them even though it's a big "secret" they keep. Never had the problems you are though. What type of moly are you using?

I am using Lyman moly bore paste and Berger moly coated bullets.

guys,
motor oil has MANY problems for this application...
1: contains sulpher and compounds, which form acids
2: is hydrophylic, that means, it will absorb water and hold it... nothing rusts like the edge of soemthing oiled with motor oil
3: parafins, especially if cheap oil, could cause a buildup
4: contains nitrogen, and compounds, forms acids
5: DIRECT CONTAINS SULPHERIC ACID, as used in all clarification process of petrol(so does gas, go figure)
6: will lead to pitting over time (my father-in-law ruined a WW2 pickup samarai sword)
7: the problems are not circumvented using synthetic oils... SHOULD be, but the cost is higher

Buy Gun Oil!!

jeffe

Hey Clark, I've been shooting Moly Coated bullets ever since it first became popular. And I've never experienced what you are going through. I know it has to be a big disappointment to you.

My Bores are "lightly greased" with a Moly Grease product that used to be sold at Western Auto. Can't remember the name right now and I'm not at home so I can't go look to see what it is.

Also Tape the muzzle shut as mentioned above.

When I come back in, the bore gets cleaned whether the rifle has been shot or not(proper upbringing) and gets lightly re-greased.

I'm currently living in a very humid part of the country and just don't have a problem with bore rust at all. Don't know what to recomend to you.

Best of luck on this problem.

[ 12-03-2002, 01:16: Message edited by: Hot Core ]

Hot core,
I read at Varmint Al's site he prevented this problem with Kroil.
I have Kroil, but I worry the thin oil will evaporate too fast.
I was wondering about moly grease, which I have, and would not evaporate.
I brought the rifle in the house last night.
I will try moly grease tonight and put it back in the car.
Next data point in 36 hours.

Overnight with moly grease and stored in the car, no new rust.

Corrosion X beats any other rust preventative hands down. www.corrosionx.com

Sprinco claims to have an acid-neutral moly in their oils & grease so as to eliminate the corrosion you experienced. I have not used their products but their web site is worth a look:

http://www.sprinco.com/plateplus.html#DESCRIPTION

They also make some interesting pistol recoil reducers and night sights.

BigIron

Years ago I worked on a problem ( non gun) of corrosion that turned out to be caused by the breakdown of molybdenum disulphide into sulphuric acid. I am sorry that I can't remember any details ,but it can happen.

Roger, that's interesting, I wonder if the coated bullets of Noslers could be teflon based, I've never seen either Barnes or Nosler give up the goods on their coatings. It would put some minds at ease if they knew it wasn't moly. That said, I've never had any problems with the Barnes XLC's, but I take it seriously and keep the tape on the muzzle etc.

I had the bore get a little rust in my Ruger 416 and a chromoly bbl Win 308 on our first trip out with them a few years ago, I tried some moly coated bullets (tumbled in bottles with powdered moly) in them I think at first but gave it up after a couple times. If this led to the rust I don't know, I just remember hearing horror stories about the stuff back then and stopped using it for that reason. Never had a problem since then though.

Brent, I read somewhere, can't remember where, that the coating on Noslers was moly. The meory is vague so I wouldn't argue the point. I do know this, I will never use moly again, not in any way shape or form.

Ballistic silvertips are lubalox coated while the ct partitions and failsafes are moly coated.

I seem to recall there are problems with leaving WD40 in a bore. Something about it getting into pores and any imperfections. I am sure the conclusion it was not good for barrel steel.

To get moly out of a barrel to where you can oil it and have it stay in good shape, is to use plain old Goop hand cleaner. This is the only thing I have found that will quickly and completely remove moly.

What sort of problem would this create? Moly does the same thing only WD40 doesn't lead to rust or acid etching and moly can. The WD40 in and of itself is not going to hurt barrel steel any more than it is my new steel crankshaft standing in the corner or my fresh bored 454 with a dryer vent blowing on them daily all summer.

I never recommend WD40 on guns. Originally it was only a penetrant. In the marketing they said use it for everything. Those that used it on steel found the steel rusted. There were so many complaints that they had to change the formula and add a rust preventative.By the way the company did not develope make or package it they only marketed it .The second problem is that as a penetrant it penetrates and can penetrate around the primer and kill it.

You can stop rust by not using Moly in the first place. You must always run an oil coated patch through the bore of any rifle using moly coated bullets. I call moly lazy mans juice because most use it to extend the intervals they must clean the bore to maintain good accuracy. I see moly causing more problems than it ever solves. Moly draws moisture into the bore if not oiled right after your done shooting for the day.

Moly grease is still working, no new rust.

It has been one week, and I just removed the grease again and looked for rust.
The rust that I remember that I couldn't get out with Fitz has gotten smaller.

The car trunk is a 13 year old Saab hatchback.
The weather is constant rain here in Seattle.
The grease is a 20 year old tub that says, "Valvolene Special Moly Grease part no 632 containing molybdenum disulfide and polyetnylene and is an NGLI grade 2 grease meeting Ford specification MIC75B... recomended as a wheel bearing lubricant on Ford cars and trucks..."

Those of you who put down molly must be in the gun business-a nightmare to you all.Let's face it,molly is the biggest advancement in the shooting industry since anything.Now for rust in bore problems,although molly is a lubricant it seems that you still have to take care and clean your rifle. Bores should be oiled with a fine high tech oil and degreased periodically. The oil should be applied with a boar mop-short strokeing and creating a foam at the muzzle.This should be done once every 2 months if stored at home in a dry place and once every 2 weeks possibly if stored in the trunk of your car.

Shootaway... explain some of the benifits moly has given shooters?... considering its a messy habubaloo of shit and doesnt make many peoples (including mine) rifles shoot any better. Secondly as far as parts lubrication, people who use moly based greases dont even realize that MOLY grease contains about 3% moly by weight whereas moly antiseize contains 40-60% and a person would greatly benifit from an antisieze compound with an added lithium grease to the surface already treated with the antiseize. THE biggest factor in wear on moving parts is contamination, where people dont properly clean moving parts of their firearms ON A REGULAR BASES. What is a fine high tech oil?

[ 12-17-2002, 10:57: Message edited by: smallfry ]

Smallfry,there are some things that I agree to.First the contamination wearing down parts-that is why they should be cleaned very often.Second,that moly is not a good lubricant for actions. A fine high tech oil would be a good modern gun oil,one that would provide a non-sticky,non-gelling,slippery thin coat of oil.As for the benefits of moly,why should I interrupt my shooting after sometimes only 4 rounds-since that is how long it takes for accuracy to deteriorate,to remove copper that has litteraly welded to the walls of my bore.Another 4 rounds and here we go again. If I continued to shoot non-coated bullets I would have to change my name to cleanaway. Happy Holidays!

Clark, I would bet that barrel is toast if your using that valvoline grease and all the rust cycles its has had. Know people that had there barrels wrecked by using automotive grade moly on there bullets, and that is what is in that grease your using.

I have a stupid question. But I read thru the entire thread, and I never seen you write that you ever tried regular good ole gun oil? Just curious if you ever tried that. Clean out the powder fouling and all, and then run some rig or shooters choice or something down it when you leave the range and leave it in your car to see if that rusts?

Shootaway, I used to have to do the same thing cleaning every 8 rounds out of my 300RUM, then came to the realization that the problem was the barrel was a peice of crap after looking at it thru a borescope. Finally rebarreled with a Kreiger and can shoot all day with no problems.

[ 12-18-2002, 17:19: Message edited by: bigcountry ]

Big country,I've tried a match barrel once-a Douglas and that didn't solve the problem. My next barrel will be a Krieger and I hope your right but I doubt it.If Krieger barrels were miraculously better every other manufacturer would be out of business.

Well, for a guy that knew people who worked for Douglas. Used to live in Charleston, WV. I am not surprised.

If you have to break down and clean every 4 rounds, there is another issue playing here. I doubt anyone on this board has to do that even with superfast rounds.

The kreiger probably won't be much better than the douglas. Your right about that.

Two questions,first,Did you shoot long enough with that Krieger? second,Wasn't that crappy boar you saw due to that stick of DYNAMITE you were shooting?

Not sure what you are asking?? Did I shoot long enough with the krieger? I guess so, I shoot about every weekend with it. Does good with me with very little copper fouling compared to my factory barrel. As far as dynomite, nope, crappy right from the beginning. We borescoped it from the beginning. Rougher than a corn cob.