Well, my fiance and I got back from our first range firing of her new Ruger 77 6.5x55. I was extremely proud of her to say the least . Her last two groups were about 3" apart at 100 yards with it just being bore sighted. Yes, lots of room to improve but we just wanted to get her comfy with it at first before we start tweeking with the scope. I had a quick question though...... she felt comfortable with the recoil until after about 20 shots, which I think is normal. But to make it a little easier to handle if need be, would dropping down the charge below the initial starting load ( 42.5 grains/ RL-22/ 140 Partitions/ book speed 2550 fps ) and getting somewhere around 2,300-2,400 fps be OK for elk out to 150 yards or so ? Not considering it just yet but just wanted to get some opinions. Also, is felt recoil going to actually be reduced that much by stepping down a grain or two ? Thanks.

I`d stay with the lower listed load and not go below it.
Do you have a cronograph? I really don`t think you`re far above the 2300 fps you`re looking for. I use 46 gr of R22 under a 140 gr Hornady in my Swede with a 24" bbl and get < 2550 fps for it. The Partition is a good choice for any game the Swede is capable of. I`d stay with the present loading or even raise it a grain or two. The swede even with full loads doesn`t have much recoil and I doubt she`ll notice the differance. If you want to reduce the kick any more I would try practicing with 120gr or 100 gr BTs over a starting load of varget or H4350. These will also do well as short range deer loads if needed. The 100 gr partition would be a very good bullet for this.

Once again, trying to get mild recoiling loads out of a 6.5 x 55 with slow powders....It doesn't work to well...

If you want to stay with the 140s, remember the bullets for these older 6.5 rounds were originally having MVs about equal to a 30/30.... One would be surprised how far a slow moving 140 grain projectile will penetrate...

Since it is for a target the size of Elk and you are looking at 150 to 200 yds, you will not need that much velocity.... Most Spitzer bullets at 2250 fps MV when zeroed 3.5 inches high at 100 yds will be dead on at 200 yds...Check it out on any reload manual's trajectory charts...

If you want to drop the recoil, go to a faster powder...Shot it and compare it to a load with RL 22, 19, H 4350, et al and you will see what I am talking about... The difference in recoil will be substantially less....

My picks, based on old reload manuals ( seat your bullet long in the Ruger.... It will take a 140 grain Corelokt seated on the first cannelure for a length of about 80 mms for the overall round length..)

30 to 32 grains of RL 7...

27.28 grains of IMR 4198/H 4198.. For accuracy I prefer IMR...

25 grains of IMR's SR 4759...

24 grains of Blue Dot....

24 grains of 2400....

All with a 140 grain bullet seated out to the magazine length will give you an MV of about 2250 fps....

3.5 inches high at 100 yds gives you a dead on zero at 200 yds.

A 140 grain bullet at that MV will penetrate all the way across an Elk broadside at 200 yds...

Recoil will be substantially less than the slower powders ( less powder, less recoil, believe me)

Accuracy will impress ya! and all of this will impress the little lady when she pulls the trigger....which could have extracurricular benefits...

A 125 grain partition might be an excellent alternative for a bullet also... or the 129 grain Hornady SP....

Good luck on the range and in the field with those loads should you try them...

cheers
seafire

I wouldn't drop the load any more. Keep in mind that the 140 grain Partition requires 2000 fps at impact to ensure proper expansion.

I doubt you're getting anything more than 2350-2400 fps anyway.

I suggest handing over a .22LR and let her shoot it a while to ger the recoil off her mind and then go back to the Swede. And, keep her shooting sessions to perhaps 8 or 10 rounds.

Bighornbreath: You might want to go the extra mile and have a Simms Vibration Lab Limbsaver Recoil pad installed, or, look it up on the charts and install one yourself if there is a made-to-fit pad available. You are generating about 12 foot pounds of recoil with the load and rifle to begin with and with the Limbsaver that felt recoil can be reduced by a huge margin. The company says between 50 to 60 percent reduction, in other words, the recoil would be from six pounds of felt recoil to just a tad more than seven pounds of felt recoil. Some folks will try to downplay the Limbsaver saying it is too soft, but with normal wear, I have yet to see one rip. On the other hand, if you use the butt of a rilfe to beat a barbwire fence out of the way, then you can rip one, or any recoil pad for that matter. Also get some noise-reduction earmuffs for her to use during range sessions. As far as the load, with the Limbsaver you might possibly be able to bump the low level load into a stronger, more leathal load. Anyhoo, I for one would not reduce the load any more because like one poster said, the partition is designed to expand at a certain velocity and if you are near that velocity to begin with, you won't be getting the full potential of the partition bullet. Just a thought! Tom Purdom

I wouldnt change the load. If she is good up to one box at a time then just let her practice with that many (or less) once or twice a week and mix that up with some .22 shooting. As long as she isnt pushing her limits she will just get better at handeling it. But use good judgment reguarding her practice. Let her tell you when she's had enough.

The suggestion of a better pad is a good one as well, anything you can do like that to make her more at ease with it. Let her know that the ultimate goal is to get it done with only one shot.

The first question is does the rifle fit her ? Poor fit especially the LOP will make felt recoil worse.A good recoil pad will help ,as mentioned.If 20 rounds is her limit , I'd have her shoot 20 rounds each time at the range ,trying to get that group size down.That cartridge should be capable of 1" or less.Practice ,practice.

I personally prefer to practice with 10-15 cartridges each time. I believe that it's MUCH better to CAREFULLY shoot one dozen rounds than 20 or more, if the last one are shot listlessly. Make her practice by shooting 12-15 cartridges, but more often.

Since nobody else has broached the subject, I will. I think the load is too light for elk !!! I'm sure many have been killed by lesser calibers, but even a full house .270 WIN is minimal on elk. If you do decide to use this, be prepared for a long chase, or worse yet, losing the animal. Elk are amazingly hardy animals, even when well hit by larger calibers. If you do shoot one, put as many follow up shots into it as you can and be prepared to only take perfect broadside shots into the heart/lung area. The minimum energy for deer is 1000 foot pounds.Elk require at least double that. The energy from your load only produces 1645 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle, considerably less than you should have at the distance the animal will be shot at.

Hi. Yes the stock was custom cut for her and they put a nice Pachmyr pad on it. I know book velocities don't mean much but Nosler has that load doing almost 2750. Thats out of a 23" barrel also. We will be chronyin it in a few more sessions. Thanks for the suggestions so far. BTW, bowhuntrrl, thanks for the input. I would rather she be a good shot with a smaller caliber than a poor one with a magnum. So far she really enjoys shooting her new gun, which is why we wanted the 6.5. I used to buy into the magnum theory but I have friends and family shooting the various 264's and 270's and they do just fine on elk out to 150 yards or so. Thanks again.

I am using 46.5 of RL22 with 140 Partitions and getting 2631 out of a 24 inch barrel. With 42.5 I got 2409. YMMV

quote:

42.5 grains/ RL-22/ 140 Partitions/ book speed 2550 fps

BighornBreath

FWIW

A couple years ago, my wife decided she wanted to see what I get all excited obout when loading shooting stuff up in the pickup. Took her out with a 6.5-06 and 100 rounds (140gr at 2700 fps) told her about the noise to make sure she put on ear protection, showed her how to load it and set up some targets.

One thing I did not mention is recoil. She didn't notice it either. She shot all 100 rounds and did a good job at it to boot.

What I'm getting at is to not make an issue of the recoil and she will probably not even notice it.

Contrary to what the other guys spec out about not lowering the velocity... I do invite you or them to go out and shoot some 140 grain bullets into any type of media at 2250 fps and then shoot them into the same media at 2500 to 2700 fps and take a look at the results.. Doing this at the 150 yds you list as max velocity... and see if the faster bullet penetrates any more... I am sure you will be surprised... I sure was!

2250 fps at the muzzle, powered by 30 grains of powder is going to recoil substantially less than 44 grains of so of RL 19, or 22... and in 150 yds, any of you guys really think the trajectory difference is going to matter especially the size of an Elk???

I bet the little lady will shoot the 2250 fps load with 30 grains of powder a lot more accurately than the 44 grains of the slower powders....It will duplicate the velocity of the 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher and look at its reputation in Africa on game as large as Lions and Elephants...
If it can handle them, I am sure it will handle and Elk...

And anyone who tells you a 6.5 mm is not adequate for Elk... probably never took an Elk with one..
Just ask them.. YOU will normally get a " trendy" answer, like "I don't need to try a stunt like that, to know it won't work"

Well I met a little old Indian Grandma in Montana that weighs about 90 lbs and is about 4/10... yet she takes several Elk a year with a 22.250.. the only rifle she owns and the only one she thinks she will ever need...Gals like her believe in shot placement.. Living on a reservation, I am sure she has taken more Elk since the 1950s than most of the other members on this board...

But good luck on any route you go.. I shoot a 6.5 x 55 and a 260 and a 6.5 x 57... anything short of grizzly, I would never feel undergunned with anyone of them and a good 140 grain bullet.. and it doesn't have to be a premium bullet either!

cheers
seafire

I never claimed that the load wouldn't kill an elk, I just said that there are better choices. You can kill an elk with a .22 if you shoot it in the right place. I just personally feel that the energy is a bit light for the job at hand. Sure, it's nice to take someone on their first elk hunt, but how would she feel if she wounded and lost an elk ??? Don't you think that might turn her off to hunting??? I think you may be too concerned about recoil. My wife drew an elk tag, so I bought her a .30-06. Wouldn't you know, she wanted to use my .338 and she did fine with it at the range. It all depends how you handle it. Sight in the gun, let her try it out to the yardage she might shoot, and if she's ok, just let it be. No need to keep her at the range shooting for hours off the bench. You can even beef the load up a little at a time, and she probably won't notice the change if you do it gradually. I just hate to see elk wounded and lost.

I'm from the same camp as Seafire on this. The load mentioned will take an elk without a hitch at a lot longer range than mentioned.

If that is what you want to use then I'd be for using it and not worry one bit!

Take a 140 Hornady and run it out at 2300 or 2400 and that bullet will still open and do plenty of damage to the 400 yard range. And I also know you'll get plenty of penetration with said combo as well.

So load em up and get after it, and let us know how it goes.

Have a super week

MD

ps I also like the idea of bumping up the snort behind the load bit by bit.

I took a moose with my 6.5x55 a couple years ago using The Sierra 160gr. SPSP (round nose to me) at 2400fps. This caliber is noted for raising merry olde hell in an animals boiler room. I can easily get 2550fps from a 140gr. bullet, and it's quite accurate. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I was drawn for an elk and deer tag with both hunts going on at the same time. I'm leaning towards using either my 264 or 6.5x55 using 125 Nosler part. if I don't use those I will probably use 129 Hornady's. Where we will be hunting deer and elk the shots will over 250yds So it looks like I mught use the 264. Several years ago my buddy shot a real nice 5x5 bull with his 25-06 using 117gr Hornady bullets I loaded up for him the elk was 100yds away when he shot it, elk ran about 50yds and fell over deader the hell and he hit it high behind the shoulder.

Gotta agree, there is something magic about a 6.5mm 140 grain bullets at ~ 2400 FPS....even the cheap Rem PSP kill whenever they hit the boiler room!! Ya gotta love 'em!!

I'd rather see someone out there with something they can shoot, instead of something they are toting strictly because they were told that they needed that level of cartridge..

A better placed shot with a smaller caliber is a heck of a lot better than a poorer placed shot with a larger caliber...

The bigger the game the more important it this is...

Just the way I see it...

I'd rather see a first time hunter with a 243 that they can shoot, than a 338 that they can not... I don't count 20 or 40 shots at the range, and them still being able to pull the trigger as qualifying for them now being able to "shoot" that caliber...Hit a target once or twice doesn't qualify as being able to shoot also..

Way too many guys take big calibers, hit the target 3 times and say they are ready.... I see it every year at the local range.. and not just one or two guys.....

If someone can shoot a rifle at 200yds, as well as they can shoot a 22 rimfire at 50, 75 or a 100 yds.. then I call them "able" to shoot that rifle caliber....

Half the guys I see can't hit a dump truck at 200 yds, with a rifle caliber they bought to hit deer or elk at 400 yds...

Just the way I see it...

cheers
seafire

I thought all 6.5x55 loads were mild for elk????

O.E.H:

Depends strictly on the shooter... they say it is to small in the USA for Elk, yet there are tons of moose shot with the round every year in Scandanavia...

There was a thread a while ago on the European forum that the Swedish or Finnish government was looking to ban the caliber from hunting moose from all the talk about it being too light a caliber anymore for that heavy of game....

It was tested against a whole lot of other cartridges for penetration capabilites... all of course much bigger... they even tested it against the 375 H & H....The found that the 6.5 x 55 bullets in 156 grains ( those European guys, no round numbers)... actually out penetrated the 375 H & H with 300 grain bullets.!!! IN whatever media they were using...

Bottom line was that they didn't ban the 6.5 x 55 from Moose hunting.... the most popular cartridge in those countries for the better part of the last century for moose hunting and also for Polar Bears way up north....

It should handle whatever we can legally hunt here in Oregon, that is for sure....

cheers
seafire

Have you considered having your girl strap on a Past Recoil Shield? You're not apt to feel the recoil anyway when shooting at an animal. Most of your actual shooting will be at the range, and the Past Shield really sucks up the recoil. I use it for everythng above 6mm and am quite happy with it. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Gidday Guys,

It seems that as the hair gets greyer the more we seem to understand how great the 6.5 is and that if you drive it at a moderate velocity it will be like the magic silver bullet.

Seafire, Mark Dobrenski, Cal and Lowrider I'm sorry but I would be very surprised if any of you are under 45 years old because having read the various threads on this forum you have too much wisdom to be any younger. Can't put a wise head on young shoulders.

I have used a 260 for the last 7 years and have inadvertantly been pushing 120gr projectiles at deer, chamois and pigs at a piddly 2400fps and have yet to recover a single one (bullet that is). Without exception they have all penetrated completely and have dropped the animals on the spot (well within 30 metres).

OK so an elk is a little bigger than a 330lb red stag but I really don't think that they are going to be that different.

I'm going to open a real shit fight with this remark so all you Nosler Partition boys and those who suffer from magnumitis get ready to have a go.


Too many people are getting hung up on the actual size of the animal being shot.

It is not the physical size of the animal that is the most important factor in how tough an animal is to kill. I am not a vet or biologist but I feel that some species are more susceptible (Christ I wish I had spell check on this machine) than others to hydrostatic shock than others.

The genus Cervus (red deer, North American Elk/Wapiti, fallow, sika etc) is relatively vulnerable to the shock imparted by a medium/high velocity projectile. Other species, especially those from Africa are a lot less so vulnerable and so require bullets bigger and tougher to get the job done.

The common feral goat I feel is tougher than the biggest Red stag or bull Wapiti when it comes to absorbing lead. I don't know why but they are tougher to drop.

It is the African continent that requires magnums not NZ or North America (OK so I haven't hunted America yet but we do have the same big game animals here).

Now lets watch the fur fly as the young bucks start telling us old farts we don't know what we are talking about as the defend their 338 Lapuas and 460 weatherbys.

Bring it on

Happy Hunting

Hamish

Ham;

g'day also...

too many guys in the USA get hung up on size, and rifle caliber is not the only thing.....

From the size of their Johnson to the size of the tires and the size of the motor in their truck...

and yeah, I am over 45... by about 8 yrs...

gosh does that finally mean I really am an old person???? Funny.. I still feel in my 30's....

but really I LOVE magnum cases... they really are flexible when it comes to downloading!!!!

cheers
seafire

Hello, thanks for the replies again so far. She did shoot with a Past pad but it made her handle feel awkward and she felt better with it off. I think we are going to keep the load in the mid to low range and just go from there. Were not going to be attempting any trick Texas heart shots with this setup. I have never felt comfortable with a less than perfect or slightly angled broadside shot. I have had to pass up on more animals than I can count because I just felt it wasn't the "right" thing to do. Again, I appreciate your input.
PS, magnum guys butt out I like buying a cannister of powder every 3 months instead of every 3 days. Ha, JK, thanks !

Gidday Bighornbreath,

Mate I like your style, Your missus is going to enjoy shooting that 6.5 with moderate loads a darn sight better than any magnum and she is not going to notice any difference when it comes to making the beasties lie down and wait for the knife to arrive than if she were to use a 338 lapua or whatever.

Probably take home a lot more venison. Bar-B-Que at your place the weekend after next is it to eat the meat she brings home.

You are on the right track.

Happy Hunting

Hamish