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Re: H 335 & W 748 Are they the same powder???
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Paul B
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I have long been told that H-414 is the same as W-760 and H335 is the same as W-748.

I've never been able to confirm that and would never make that statement as being a confirmed statement unless it was published in the Hodgdon manual or someone of authority from Winchester published the statement.

However if I was having trouble getting W-748 it sure wouldn't take long to work up a load with H-335 and I'd bet that I'd come up with the same load I had in W-748.



One of the gunwriters in one of the gun rags stated that H-414 and W-760 were just different lots of the same powder. he said that a Winchester representative had given him this info.
WMR and H-450 were supposed to be the same deal as H-414/W760 combo. I figured that there must of been some truth as both were discontinued at the same time. I have a bit of a theory on why they were dropped, but I'm reluctant to pass it on at this time. I always liked WMR in my .270 and .300 Win. Mag.
I've worked with both H-335 and W-748 and frankly, I do not think they are the same powder.
IIRC, that writer also said the W-231 and HP-38 were the same as well, but don't trust my memory on that one.
If I come across that article again, I'll post which rag it was in and who wrote it.
Paul B.
 
Posts: 2814 | Location: Tucson AZ USA | Registered: 11 May 2001Reply With Quote
vapodog
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I have long been told that H-414 is the same as W-760 and H335 is the same as W-748.

I've never been able to confirm that and would never make that statement as being a confirmed statement unless it was published in the Hodgdon manual or someone of authority from Winchester published the statement.

However if I was having trouble getting W-748 it sure wouldn't take long to work up a load with H-335 and I'd bet that I'd come up with the same load I had in W-748.
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
RDub
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Hi
I have worked with H-335 and 748 enough to feel that 748 is definitely slower than H-335. I believe that BallC2 has to be included here also as I have heard that when a 'lot' of ball powder is produced, it is labeled as to the burning rate it winds up with. If it's on the slow side, it is marketed as 748. If it's in the 'middle' it has H-335 stamped on it and if it's on the fast side it is sold as BallC2. I can't say how accurate this is, but I did hear this some time back.

I haven't seen much lot to lot variation with either of these as year after year I get pretty much the same velocity with the loads I use these powders in. At least that's been my experience.
 
Posts: 277 | Location: Grants Pass, OR | Registered: 10 October 2004Reply With Quote
Jeff57
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I vote with RDub that WW748 and BLC-2 are basicly the same powder. They are right next to each other on the powder burn rate chart and I have gotten the same nasty suprise from both when the weather gets warm, something I've not experienced with H-335. I've mentioned this before to other people and they have chewed my a?? about them not being the same. Always start low and work up and use the manufacturers data(I feel so much better saying that). I read a magazine article sometime back about H-414,WW760,BLC-2,WW748 and a couple of others all being made by the same company, someone cried B.S. and of course I couldn't find the magazine(must of been one of those magazines I read in the store waiting for the wife). Hope this helps.
Jeff
 
Posts: 101 | Location: WA | Registered: 25 April 2003Reply With Quote
DuaneinND
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NO- just because they are manufactured by the same company each powder has its own specific burning rate- they are close, but that only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.
414 and 760 have different burning rates also, they are very close, but usually 414 will max out about 1-2 grains before 760.
 
Posts: 869 | Location: N Dakota | Registered: 29 December 2003Reply With Quote
Jeff57
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Gee,
I would think that there could be almost that much difference between lots.
Jeff
 
Posts: 101 | Location: WA | Registered: 25 April 2003Reply With Quote
BCB
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I've shot them side by side in my 7-30 Waters Contender using the Lyman 287346, and the WIN-748 is 2-2.5 grains slower than the H-335. Don't think I would substitute data, especially on the high end of the charge weight. Good-luck...BCB
 
Posts: 212 | Location: WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA | Registered: 11 March 2001Reply With Quote
ricciardelli
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The following powders have ABOUT the same burning characteristics as W-748:
Faster
150 W-748
151 IMR-4064
152 Brigadier 4065
153 AA-2520
154 N-202
155 RL-15
156 AR-2208
157 N-140
158 R-903
159 S-341
160 TU-5000
161 Varget
Slower
 
Posts: 3282 | Location: Saint Marie, Montana | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
ricciardelli
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Faster
*136 H-335
137 N-134
138 R-902
139 TAC
140 Brigadier 3032
141 AA-2460
142 H-4895
143 N-135
144 SP-10
145 RL-12
146 AA-2495
147 IMR-4320
148 AR-2206
149 TU-3000
*150 W-748
Slower
 
Posts: 3282 | Location: Saint Marie, Montana | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
DigitalDan
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Never checked notes on the two, but my .358 says they're not.
 
Posts: 9647 | Location: Yankeetown, FL | Registered: 31 August 2002Reply With Quote
BlueMoon
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I agree that H335 seems to be a little faster than the W748 that I've worked with. Also, there's H110-W296, HS-6-W540, HS-7-W571 that are supposed to made by the same place in FL that made WW's and some of Hodgdon's powders. I've heard some compare the discontinued WMR to the discontinued H-450. BM

Bill
 
Posts: 128 | Location: Hensley, AR | Registered: 05 June 2003Reply With Quote
<eldeguello>
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Quote:

So apparently WW 748 is STILL a little slower than H335...........

 
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Hot Core
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Hey Steve, Have I overlooked BL-C2 on your list? Where do you find it to fit?

---

Hey Seafire, Only speaking for the rifles I've had, I find BL-C2 and WW-748 to give nearly the same Pressure indications with similar Loads. And I've also found H335 to be slightly hotter, meaning it takes less powder to reach the same Pressure Indicators.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
Hot Core
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I'm reluctant to say one Powder is exactly like another, because there always seems to be something to come along and prove it to be "questionable". Right now the WW-748 and BL-C2 jugs I've got can be used interchangeably in "my" 223Rem with 50gr bullets and Fed primers. Use them in a 308Win (or something else) and the results might be different.

I'd say they are close in their burning rate, but as usual, each Load needs to be developed from below just to be totally SAFE.

Both pour and meter exceptionally well due to their shape. And they both seem to burn relatively clean for me. Perhaps not as clean as some of the newer Powders though.

I would not consider them the best choices for Reduced Loads since they are double base and apparently have a good bit of deterrent coating.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
vines
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well 414 and 760 are not the SAME powder 760 has a little faster burn rate. NO 335 and 748 are not the same. 748 is a faster powder than 335. BL-C2 and accurate 2460. Are in the middle of the two. I have the whole page of burn rates from a-z. I get out of guns and ammo mag.
 
Posts: 1137 | Location: SouthCarolina | Registered: 07 July 2004Reply With Quote
<eldeguello>
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Quote:

well 414 and 760 are not the SAME powder 760 has a little faster burn rate. NO 335 and 748 are not the same. 748 is a faster powder than 335. BL-C2 and accurate 2460. Are in the middle of the two. I have the whole page of burn rates from a-z. I get out of guns and ammo mag.





Well, your Guns & Ammo chart is wrong, then, because WW 748 is SLOWER than H335. I suggest you look at Steve Ricciardelli's chart, because it is about the most accurate & complete one around......



Fast



*136 H-335

137 N-134

138 R-902

139 TAC

140 Brigadier 3032

141 AA-2460

142 H-4895

143 N-135

144 SP-10

145 RL-12

146 AA-2495

147 IMR-4320

148 AR-2206

149 TU-3000

*150 W-748



Slow
 
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Jay Gorski
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well 414 and 760 are not the SAME powder 760 has a little faster burn rate. NO 335 and 748 are not the same. 748 is a faster powder than 335. BL-C2 and accurate 2460. Are in the middle of the two. I have the whole page of burn rates from a-z. I get out of guns and ammo mag. [/quote

Yes, 414 and 760 are the same powder, a call to the techs at Hodgdon will verify this, 1-800-622-4366, been there, done that, I know, I've seen load data that says different, that just means that 414 and 760 came from different lots, like that never happens with any other powders of the same designation with different lot#? A call to Hodgdon will also verify if H335 and 748 are the same powder, I know both of these powders are said to have been used in the development of the 5.56mm NATO, and they're both nasty dirty powders, I think they're the same myself. Jay
 
Posts: 1745 | Location: WI. | Registered: 19 May 2003Reply With Quote
<eldeguello>
posted
Quote:

Quote:

well 414 and 760 are not the SAME powder 760 has a little faster burn rate. NO 335 and 748 are not the same. 748 is a faster powder than 335. BL-C2 and accurate 2460. Are in the middle of the two. I have the whole page of burn rates from a-z. I get out of guns and ammo mag. [/quote

Yes, 414 and 760 are the same powder, a call to the techs at Hodgdon will verify this, 1-800-622-4366, been there, done that, I know, I've seen load data that says different, that just means that 414 and 760 came from different lots, like that never happens with any other powders of the same designation with different lot#? A call to Hodgdon will also verify if H335 and 748 are the same powder, I know both of these powders are said to have been used in the development of the 5.56mm NATO, and they're both nasty dirty powders, I think they're the same myself. Jay



DON'T CONFUSE THE ISSUE WITH THE FACTS....MY MIND IS MADE UP!!
 
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Clark
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I just sniffed the H335 and W748 [that I bought because of your 30-30 220 gr post].

They smell much the same, but all ball powders smell like that to me.
 
Posts: 2249 | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
B17G
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HOT core, I don't plan on utilizing them in reduced loads.

W 748 has been a good powder in my 260 Rem target loads.
I do use it in the 30/30 and 22/250 at times also.

cheers
seafire
 
Posts: 2889 | Location: Southern OREGON | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
Hot Core
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I just sniffed the H335 and W748 ...They smell much the same, ...



Just went in and listened to mine(in the jugs) ... They sound the same.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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