I received my first order of GS Custom HV bullets today. I ordered them on 12-18-01 and paid extra for airmail. They are for my 300 Win Mag and are the 160HV. I checked the cartridge length where the 160HV bullets are just touching the lands in my long throated 300 Win Mag. It is at 3.565" which is clearly too long for those bullets as hardly any of the bearing surface of the bullet would be in the neck. These bullets have quite a pronounced heel which is rounded so the bearing surface of the bullet ends much sooner than most bullets. So my question is this: what would be the length you would suggest I start at? How many of the rings should I have in the neck? I am guessing based on looking at a loaded round with another bullet along side to visualize where the straight shank of the bullet is sitting in the neck that I should not have the cartridge length much over 3.450" for a 300 Win Mag. My magazine will allow 3.6". Any thoughts from users of this bullet in this cartridge? Thanks, Rufous.
Posts: 224 | Location: Walla Walla, WA 99362 | Registered: 05 December 2001
GS Custom sends a pamphlet giving detailed reloading instructions with every packet of bullets.
From my experience the maximum length of the loaded cartridge should have two driving bands inside the case neck, otherwise the bullet will be loose and can fall out. You prepare your reloads at this length, at different charge weights and chronograph them at a shooting range. When you have determined the load giving the desired speed, you prepare more reloads and take your reloading press and seating dies to the shooting range. You then start shooting 3 shot groups, and decrease the length of your reloads as you proceed untill you reach the ideal length suited to your rifle.
In my case, using a 140gr HV HP in a .303, load development took no time at all. Using our local powder I prepared reloads at �gr intervals until loads were so compressed that I could not seat the bullet. All loads fired without ANY pressure problems! I settled on a load 1gr less than maximum compressed case capacity giving me a velocity of 2800f/sec. I prepared more reloads and took my press to the shooting range, but in the end did not even bother with experimenting with different lengths as my rifle produced �inch groups at 100m and 1 inch groups at 200m - and that out of a modified ex-military surpluss rifle with its original barrel!
An interesting thing was that all the incremental development loads shot less than 1MOA groups at 100m and that is more than good enough for the type of hunting I do.
Rufus. In the testing I have done with GS 380gr. FN's (not the HV) in my 416 Rigby, I found the best accuracy with the bullet seated well into the case! These bullets just don't seem to benefit from being seated close to the lands. The FN's have the driving bands like the HV's and I am wondering if that makes it less sensitive to seating depth. With the cost of these bullets, I would suggest finding what works and stick to it! Peter.
If it were me, I'd load them short and shoot them. Make sure the bullet will stay during the various stresses when hunting. I've never been able to get them to shoot much over 1", no matter what I did (and that was in my PPC, really close to the lands......). FWIW, Dutch.
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000
Well I got out and did some shooting with them. I tried it at 3.450" which gives two bands in neck with 3rd band almost starting into neck. I tried only RL22 so far. 79 gr=3330 fps; 80=3340; 81=3435; 82=3450; 83=3480; 84=3490. I think I will try shooting a group now at 82 grains with 3.450" and 3.400" seating depths. 83 and 84 grains are compressed charges and offer only 30-40 fps more velocity which does not seem worth the extra pressure. 84 grains was a bit sticky in extraction. Gerard indicated I should be able to get 3500 to 3550 with this bullet in my 26" barreled 300 Win Mag but I am doubting that I can safely. Perhaps I will try H4831. Rufous.
Posts: 224 | Location: Walla Walla, WA 99362 | Registered: 05 December 2001
According to Alliant, 81.5 gr Re 22 with a 150 gr jacketed bullet results in 3275 fps and 60,400 psi. With the 150 gr HV you are getting 150 fps more, but not gaining much per grain at 83 and 84 gr. Re 22 seems then too slow and you should look at H4350 or Re19 rather than H4831. With HV bullets, the higher speed is gained early in the barrel. Barrel time is less than with smooth bullets, thereby requiring faster burning powder than what would normally be used with similar weight bullets.
Gerard, I am shooting the 160 HV, not the 150 HV. I am not having much luck so far with these bullets. For supposedly not being very finicky as to powder charge or seating depth I am having a heck of a time. So far I have only tried RL22. I shot a group with 82.0 grains seated at 3.4 and 3.45 and 3.48". The group at 3.45" seating depth was 1.35" at 100 yards. The other two seating depths gave horrible groups. Then I tried 81.0,80.5 and 80.0 with a seating depth of 3.450" at 300 yards. 81.0 gave a group of 2.2". 80.5 gave a group of 5.55" and and 80.0 gave a group of 7". I will try 81.0 again but to see only 0.5 grains make the group more than double its size makes me wonder how stable the load is. I have not tried a group yet at 81.5 and so will probably try that as well but am doubting that I will end up with the 1/2 MOA groups that many are raving about. Rufous.
Posts: 224 | Location: Walla Walla, WA 99362 | Registered: 05 December 2001
Rufous, Sorry about the 160/150 confusion but the speed you mentioned had me foxed. I should have picked up the weight in your first post though. Have a look at the e-mail I sent on the speeds. You will see that 3500 to 3550 fps with a 160HV was my reply to your 30STW question. We run the 160HV at 3500fps in a 300 Weatherby and 3400 fps is tops in the 300WM. Stick with the 81gr Re22 load and play with the col. Two other items, make shure the case mouths are uniformly chamfered and that you are not pushing the shoulder back when resizing, creating headspace symptoms. I like sizing my cases so that there is a slight drag when closing the bolt. The slight pressure exerted by the bolt face on the case head will centre the cartridge in the chamber on the shoulder of the case giving more uniformity. You mention a 2.2" group at 300 yards with the 81gr load. That is not too shabby at all.
Rufous: I'll bet a donut that your velocities are inconsistent with RL22. If you want to go with that slow a powder, you need a whole lot of neck tension to make sure you build pressure fast enough to burn consistently. Best bet, IMNSHO, is to go to a faster powder, hotter primer.
I'll predict that if you go to 4350, your ES would shrink dramatically. I use RL19/fed 210 with my 7mag, and it's prolly too slow, but they stay below 1", so what do I care? In my PPC, Tac gives me wonderful groups with conventional bullets, but not with H.V.'s. They need H322 or faster. Then, they are well under 1". FWIW, Dutch.
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000
Gerard, thanks for the replies. I did not think that I could safely get 3500+ fps out of the 160. It does seem as if I am possibly using too slow of a powder but I will try the 81 grain charge again at the same seating depth that gave me the 2.2" 300 yard group. If it is consistently accurate I will call it good. I cannot likely utilize better accuracy than that in the field. I did try 3.45, 3.4 and 3.48" seating depths with 82 grains and the 3.45 was more accurate. Perhaps I should try 3.43 and 3.44". I would be delighted if I can consistently get sub 0.75 MOA at 300 yards and 3400+fps from your 160 HV. Rufous.
Posts: 224 | Location: Walla Walla, WA 99362 | Registered: 05 December 2001
Don, Yes it is. I saw your e-mail coming in this morning. Our e-mail is sorted to pass the tech questions and chat on to me and the admin stuff go to Gina and the staff. It is the only way I can begin to stay on top of the technical mail. Gina will get back to you tomorrow.
The email I sent last night was through the link at your web site (support@gscustom.co.za).
The email address in your profile here at AR is: (gscustom@intekom.co.za), do both still work? If not you can update your profile by clicking on the small bluetext "profile" link at the top of this page.
Don, All the mail from four addresses are sorted into technical, orders, admin and free classifieds for our Gunlinks site. The e-mail addresses are: support@gscustom.co.za or orders@gscustom.co.za or gscustom@intekom.co.za or gunlinks@intekom.co.za and there is a lot of crosstalk with all four. I thankfully see only the stuff that have tech questions or chat.
