Does you guys see a problem with a rifle that craters primers? I've got a WBY Vanguard 204 Ruger that craters both factory and handloaded ammo. I haven't pierced any primers yet. It's really more of a cosmetic thing at the moment, but was thinking of having my gunsmith fix the problem.

Craters usually caused by either high pressure or a little too much gap around the firing pin or a combination of both. Since you have it on both factory and handloads I'd lean more towards the gap. If it is just cosmetic I would leave it alone.

I think it is the gap around the firing pin. I get this on even my lightest of loads when playing with a new load.

A weak firing pin spring can also result in or exacerbate primer cratering.

If you are certain that your ammunition is producing normal working pressures and the cratering isn't extreme enough to cause any problems, I'd leave it alone. However, a gun that allows primers to crater can also allow primers to pierce at lower pressures than otherwise, so proceed with some caution.

The gun is relatively new. I've had it for 3-4 years now? It could be a weak firing pin spring, but I'm hedging my bet on firing pin hole too large. Is there a way to determine if it might be the spring outside of taking it to the gunsmith?

I'll try to get some pictures later this afternoon and post them.

Thanks,

IMO, the use of a cratered primer has ceased to be a reliable sign of pressure unless it's coupled with other signs. The rifle companies are making the hole in the bolt face too big which lets the primer flow up around the pin with even modest pressure.

I have one of the first Vangards made in .243, it's some 40 years old now. Same craterng problem, I sent it back, with three sample fired Remington rounds, for correction. It came back in a few weeks unchanged, with three Federal rounds with perfect looking primers and a letter that said it met factory standards. So, I've used Federal primers ever since and still have no reason to be concerned about it.

IF I were to try to 'fix' it, think I'd go for a new, larger diameter firing pin rather than trying to bush the pin hole.

A lot of people say Federal caps are 'softer' than others but I sure haven't found that to be so. They do have a slighly more sensitive compound but that just seems to make the caps more reliable.

The factory rounds I shoot are the Federal Premium with the 39 gr Sierra Blitzking bullets. I've been shooting CCI 450 primers with about the same amount of cratering.

I tried to take some pictures this afternoon, but my little point and click camera will not focus enough to show the cratering appropiately.

If you can find a larger firing pin for the rifle it should fix this problem.
If not a bushing in the bolt face is the only other way left,well besides find another bolt with a better fitting pin.
Good Luck on whatever you decide to do.

Try the CCI #34 primers.They were designed to eliminate slam fires and the metal is thicker or stronger or both. The frontal shape of the firing pin could also be contributing to your problem.
Study the shape and diameter of the dimple in the primer. It can tell you a lot. roger

Personally, if it is only cosmetic, and everything else is fine, I'd just leave it as is, or at most, as Roger stated: try some different brands of primers and use the ones that crater the least.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
Does you guys see a problem with a rifle that craters primers? I've got a WBY Vanguard 204 Ruger that craters both factory and handloaded ammo. I haven't pierced any primers yet. It's really more of a cosmetic thing at the moment, but was thinking of having my gunsmith fix the problem.

Remington 700 in 204 and other calibers have been having this problem. Remington has said it will not hurt a thing as it comes from a slight bevel around the firing pin hole. Rem did offer to replace the bolt under warrenty. Yours could be that the hole is just to large?? Photo of Rem 700 in 204 with factory or handloads. Reload Left. Factory on the Right >

The pictures are very similar to what I'm seeing. Wouldn't you know this rifle is also a 204 Ruger but in a WBY Vanguard.

As you see, the shoulders on the primers are still nicely rounded. Were the primers totally flat across along with the cratered pin strike you might be getting a bit of pressure but as it is, I'd forget about it.

Unfortunately, this seems to be 'normal' for new Remington rifles!
I have a Rem 700 VSSF in 22-250 that does exactly what you're describing with either handloads or factory cases.
After close inspection of the firing pin hole in the bolt, I discovered that the hole is not only beveled, but also quite a bit larger than the firing pin.
I remedied my rifle by bushing the firing pin hole in the bolt, it was an inexpensive fix to a problem I just couldn't live with!

Cheers.

My Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .223 Rem has been doing this ever since I got it almost 4 years ago. It craters primers noticeably with mild and stout handloads, as well as factory loads. My Weatherby Vanguard Varmint Special shows no sign of cratering primers with identical loads, so I can always tell which case was fired in which rifle. The only primers I have actually pierced were some factory Prvi-Partizan 55 gr SP loads, and if I recall correctly, both rifles managed to pierce at least one primer in a box of 20.