That seems a little extreme

doomsday is here!

I don't think this will happen, but it is scary that they are trying. Who elects these idiots anyway?

Although this crap will never pass, it genuinely scares me. I am unwavering in my opinion that firearm ownership is the most important political issue, period.

When they come for our ammo, I propose we give it to them....

BULL-CRAP

Unfortunately much of these far left ideas stem from that grand organization in New York City, United Nations. They would have all small arms banned if possible and makes for the creation of one world order(??????) much easier. Believe you will find that many nations do not allow the ownership of a reloading press, components, etc. Must not have the ability to challenge the repressive government by the common masses you know. Some of our own politicians, more than we care for, firmly support the United Nations and would even offer our own laws, practices, etc. to be subject to that all wise body of international "nabobs."

Now, dsiteman, the UN is flawlessly objective on the topic of firearms ownership. Why, just look at this perfectly neutral sculpture outside the UN headquarters in New York.

Years ago, while standing next to that "art", my father and I had a good chuckle when he remarked, "I wonder what they're trying to say". It's subtle, but I think we got the message.

Obamas or Rock Bottom as I prefer to call him , Home State .

Yep Changes are coming alright the kind that do absolutely NOTHING but punish LAW ABIDING CITIZENS .

Those with the ability to pay are always punished for those without the ability !.

Dummycrats in action .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by 458_wanderer:
Although this crap will never pass, it genuinely scares me. I am unwavering in my opinion that firearm ownership is the most important political issue, period.

When they come for our ammo, I propose we give it to them....

Never say never. The libs have finally figured out they can't ban our guns but they can regulate ammo to the point guns become wall decorations. If you are a Democrat, change your party to Rep. & vote accordingly. I don't agree w/ everything that goes on in the Rep. party, but at least they want to leave my guns & money alone.

Didn't you hear that Obama and Hillary supposedly support the Second Amendment? There are some people who actually believe them.

I hope ya'll are registered to vote the right way this coming election.

If you are a Democrat, change your party to Rep. & vote accordingly. I don't agree w/ everything that goes on in the Rep. party, but at least they want to leave my guns & money alone. [/QUOTE]


Though I agree strongly with the sentiment above, I must respectfully disgree with the tactical approach suggested.

It would be far easier (and require that less voters change parties) to have conservaties all register as Democrats. Then they could all vote in the Demo primaries, and keep all the liberal whackos from even getting onto the ballots in the general elections.

As has always been the case in politics, it is easier to cause change from the "inside" than from the outside.

Yep some people do believe them and some people believed Bush when he said there were WMDs in Iraq! Every one is entitled to his or her own opinion.

Bush must have been really surprised when he found out that Sadam only liked to Gas Kurds.Apparently he made just enough to kill a few thousand Kurds..I can see Bush now.. Fool me once..
AK

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
If you are a Democrat, change your party to Rep. & vote accordingly. I don't agree w/ everything that goes on in the Rep. party, but at least they want to leave my guns & money alone.

Though I agree strongly with the sentiment above, I must respectfully disgree with the tactical approach suggested.

It would be far easier (and require that less voters change parties) to have conservaties all register as Democrats. Then they could all vote in the Demo primaries, and keep all the liberal whackos from even getting onto the ballots in the general elections.

As has always been the case in politics, it is easier to cause change from the "inside" than from the outside.

AC, Thank you!! I'm over on the blue side waiting for some help!!

As to the efforts stemming from the UN regarding small arms, sporting or otherwise, check out their web site and it may come as a shock just which nation usually leads the pack on trying to ban most every form of small arms. Not sure what the penalty is for owning unauthorized reloading equipment in Mexico these day, but last I heard, not permissable. If someone would know the facts on that, might be good reading so we can guard against such action here.

Ive read the link that is most rediculous thing I have ever read. I am pretty sure they will do nothing of the sort. If someone stops and thinks about it, the money that the state would loose and thats all they care about anyway is the money. The tax money, license fee's, ammo, clothing, rifles, bullets, all of the loading supplies, calls, scents etc. I can't see that coming to be. First off that would be crushing our right to bear arms. because what good is a gun with out ammo. I mean come on barcodes and secrets on ammo what a bunch of . The people will have to stand up against this crap. The govt agencies has to get over this idea that only criminals own weapons.
If thats the case then they will have to start barcoding beer cans and bottles and when someone gets hurt by a drunk driver. They will have to go back to the bar owner and sue them. What a bunch of sh@#. It the same theory, I will stop there it just makes me angry seeing stupidity like this. Good Luck Everyone The simple minded fools of this nation are against us. There is a big battle ahead.

quote:

Originally posted by bushwackr:
If thats the case then they will have to start barcoding beer cans and bottles and when someone gets hurt by a drunk driver. They will have to go back to the bar owner and sue them. :

Sorry BW, but "going back to the bar owner and suing them" is a real fact of life. It has been for decades. When someone gets involved in an accident with alcohol involved every bar and liquor store the victims visited are named in the subsequent law suits.

There is a third-world class of people "movin on up". Hang on as it will get worse before it gets better.

GeoW

Is anybody still curious as to why I saddled up in the summer of 1978 and moved from southern Illinois to Idaho? Abraham Lincoln would be soooooooooo proud of his adopted home state.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

What I find disgraceful about the sculpture outside the UN is that it is clearly a COLT revolver. Perhaps those inside need to be reminded that sixty plus years ago it was Colt, and others, that supplied the very "tools of liberty" to release Europe and the Far East from German and Japanese tyranny.

It is really quite shameful to have such a thing outside the very building that house the UN. If anything there should be a sculpture of an set of manacles lying broken beneath the same revolver in homage to the fact that it was by these "tools of liberty" that Europe and the Far East were freed.

Good work and Congradulations to the Birds that shit all over that "sculpture art",

What would happen if every hunter in the country stopped hunting for 2 years? Purchase no license, killed no deer. Those bushy tailed rats would invade every inch of all the rich peoples yards and destroy thousands more cars. The states and insurance companies would be in a panic and the game departments out of money. We could keep the ammo and gun makers out of trouble by continuing to buy stuff, but not use any of it for hunting.
I would also like to see every gun maker refuse to sell guns, parts or ammo to every law department in a state that fools with our gun ownership. They could recover the loss by increasing the cost of ammo and guns for the military. Make congress feel the pinch.
The gun makers will have to get on board eventually or they will be out of business in the long run.
Just dreaming, I don't have an answer.
The biggest problem facing us is that the average shooter does not have much money and just staying in the NRA hurts the pocketbook. The kooks are bankrolled by big money nuts.
I would like to see every gunshop make a hunter buying anything, flash their NRA card or a card from another pro gun outfit before selling to them. Make them sign up on the spot.

After the Australian Government signed the "Lima agreement" ( United Nations deal ) in the early 1990's. As a consequence Gun smithing courses were stopped at the state sponsored trade schools.
The only gun smiths left in the public arena are getting on now.
There has been several bans since then
All semi auto rifles and guns
All pistols above 38 cal
All pistols with a barrel shorter than 4 1/4 "

There are 20 million people in Australia. Last year an audit of feral pigs was released by the Australian Government there are 20 million feral pigs in Australia.
Its a great place to live except for the terrible gun laws.

The good news is the Second Amendment of the Constitution under which constitutionality of legislation by DC is being considered that bans the ownership of firearms in the District of Columbia.

There has been a recent discussion of laws banning firearms on campuses and malls by state laws.

It seems to me that if the right of free speech in public places is protected by the 1st Amendment with extremely broad latitude granted the "speaker," that the right to keep and bear arms is similarly broad.

Attempts to "ban" firearms by banning ammo is as much a violation as that on the firearm itself.

It will be interesting to see how the court rules. Kudude

PS: Remember when election day comes, that the next president will appoint about three or four justices. k-d

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
Attempts to "ban" firearms by banning ammo is as much a violation as that on the firearm itself.
PS: Remember when election day comes, that the next president will appoint about three or four justices. k-d

You & I see it that way but the 2nd Ammendment does NOT give us the right to bear ammunition & the Dems. are learning this. They can, & wiil if in control, regulate firearms away from the common man by taxes, fees & burdensome regulations. Just come to Kalif. & see what's going on & they are just getting started here. They could very easily ban reloading as a "safety" issue then add a 300% tax on ammo (already proposed by Schummer of NY). If the USGov. bans trasnportation of smokelss powder or primers on Federal paid for roads, well, no more reloading w/o a ban.
Yes, there are many ways it can be done & you better believe the liberal Dems. are trying to find away to do it. They fear gun owners, rational or not, & that fear will carry them along way. I still say you vote Rep. & keep liberal dogs at bay. Just ask Bob, I'll bet they never though it would happen in Australia either.

It's important to realize that this specific law is very unlikely to pass at this time; it's simply too extreme. The supporters of this law know this, but still they proceed.

Their objective with such an outlandish proposal is to sling mud and raise awareness, "stir the pot" so to speak. Furthermore, they seek to desensitize us to the erosion of our firearm rights. The next law they propose may SEEM reasonable in comparison to this one. Such tactics are especially effective in swaying the opinions of those on the fence. Most importantly, we must remember that these proposals are bait, meant for us. We must all be aware of the language and tone we use when discussing our firearm rights. Those that seek to take our freedom like nothing more than to perpetuate the image of gun owners as uneducated hicks, anarchists, animal killers etc.

I'm sure we all have made extreme claims in the fray of an argument with an "anti". The phrase "cold, dead hand" has become infamous, no doubt. Tact is the key. Though many of us would make them take our guns out of said hand, let us not forget how we portray ourselves. Food for thought, brothers and sisters.

Bob from down under ; It is a Great Place to live or was in my case .

The Only problem I ever really noticed was Immigration , Government ( Set up like those blasted Limy's ) to much foreign investment and the Rights of Aussie's going down the swirly !.

Hey Kind of reminds me of where the USA is heading .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I say we forcefully take their guns from them and drop them on an island with all the rapist and murderers from the prisons and see how bad they want guns then.

take away all guns. then you`ll have to use a u-haul truck full of fertalizer and some desiel fuel

Thank GOD that the USA will never be able to take away all of it's citiznes guns. I am willing to fight to the death before I let my governemnt take away my guns.

quote:

Originally posted by steve4102:
http://www.isra.org/email_alerts/alert_02122008.html

Let me tell you what the results of passage of such legislation will be. No more firearms or ammunition will be made in, shipped to, or sold in the states which do so. For one thing, no manufacturer could afford to comply with such bullshit. For example, over 1 MILLION rounds of .22 LR cartridges are fired in the U.S. EVERY DAY!! No-one, not even a fool stupid enough to make such a proposal, could devise a way to keep track of all the serial numbers!! Even if some manufacturer were enough of a sheep to attempt to comply.

(This is NOT a new proposal! The former senator (now dead) Daniel Patrick Moynehan once introduvced a bill in the U.S. Congress proposing SN's on bullets. No-one took him seriously. This rejection was probably responsible for his subsequent demise.....)

Some moron also introduced the same BS bill here in PA recently! Does anyoine on this thread seriously believe that it is even POSSIBLE to keep a record of the SN's of EVERY BULLET LOADED OR CARTRIDGE CASE MANUFACURED??

Hell, the Government can't even keep a correct record of every criminal who's convicted!

This proposal is beyond extreme-it is an impossibility simply from the practical standpoint. I see that the MD State Police have recently concluded that their handgun/forensic cartridge/bullet sample database is not particularly useful. Believe I could have told them that before they wasted the money to create it!

quote:

Some moron also introduced the same BS bill here in PA recently! Does anyoine on this thread seriously believe that it is even POSSIBLE to keep a record of the SN's of EVERY BULLET LOADED OR CARTRIDGE CASE MANUFACURED??

Or the thousands,and I mean thousands of bullets that I already have and probably couldn't shoot in whats left of my lifetime.

Of course everyone will wring their hands and whine this isn't right etc... at what point do we stop talking and start acting?

at what point do we do what the founding fathers intended and ENFORCE the constitution on our government?

I'm not nearly as distressed by what the assholes eleced to office are doing as I am by some of the actions of people that NOBODY elected that carry as much OR MORE weight
than law made by actual lawmakers.



AD

quote:

Originally posted by steve4102:
http://www.isra.org/email_alerts/alert_02122008.html

Here, In Indiana, some of us refer to Illinois as "California East"!!!!!

quote:

Of course everyone will wring their hands and whine this isn't right etc... at what point do we stop talking and start acting?

at what point do we do what the founding fathers intended and ENFORCE the constitution on our government?

Allan, you pose the question that is the very core of the issue. I will plainly admit though, I know not the answer. Were the threat a home intruder, mugger, or even an angry bear; the solution would be obvious to all of us. That solution hasn't changed since we had only rocks and sticks, it is fundamental, the purest of the pure.

Here, in 2008, where the anti-gun threats are many, but usually indistinct, we are left with an extraordinarily delicate and open-ended problem. Of course, when "they" show up and "ask" for our guns, they'll have placed themselves in precisely the same category as our hypothetical bear. While it's not likely that "they" are going to show up today or tomorrow, it is very likely that they'll take steps to make it easier to show up, when they decide to.

So I propose this as at least a partial answer to your above question: the first action we should take (every one of us, today, now) is to educate ourselves on ALL aspects of the issue. Being on this forum, aware and concerned, is only the beginning. We are most effective, and present the best image, when we are informed and rational. Let us hope that this "conflict" never leaves the political forum and enters the "reality" forum. Though we'll all go to that place, I doubt many of us want to.

Make no mistake, our education should not be limited to the political side of things. By all means, learn to shoot better. Learn to reload. Educate yourself about chemistry, metallurgy, machining, welding, casting, ballistics.......the list goes on and on. The internet is the greatest source of knowledge ever devised, use it! The old saying, "Knowledge is Power", is rarely more true than in the case of a people versus their so-called government.

quote:

Originally posted by 458_wanderer:
Now, dsiteman, the UN is flawlessly objective on the topic of firearms ownership. Why, just look at this perfectly neutral sculpture outside the UN headquarters in New York.

Years ago, while standing next to that "art", my father and I had a good chuckle when he remarked, "I wonder what they're trying to say". It's subtle, but I think we got the message.

OH MY GOODNESS ME !!

http://www.foxbusiness.com/article/c..._493418_1.html
excerpt
The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms today is calling on lawmakers in the states of Washington, Arizona, New York, Illinois, Hawaii and several other states to scrutinize legislation that would require ammunition coding, because it mandates a soul source monopoly for a Seattle-based company that owns the technology.Based on a story in the new edition of Gun Week, and a look at virtually identical legislation that has been introduced in several states, CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb said there are serious questions that need to be addressed about these measures, and the effort to pass them into law.

"Sponsors of bills that would require coding of cartridge casings and bullets in their respective states have neglected to mention that there is only one company in the country with the technology, and that company has been working with a 'hired-gun' consulting firm that offers its help to lawmakers drafting the legislation," Gottlieb said. "Essentially, you have state legislators working as promoters for a company called Ammunition Coding System, pushing measures in at least ten states that would mandate the use of this proprietary technology at the expense of gun owners.

"Even if the technology were licensed to various ammunition manufacturers," he continued, "it still puts one company in a monopoly position. On its own website, the company even acknowledges that legislation would be required to implement what many gun owners believe is a back-door gun registry, by forcing dealers to keep records on who purchases ammunition.

"Creating a technology, and applying for a patent while hiring a consulting firm to push legislation that requires this technology is horribly self-serving," Gottlieb added. "The fact that in every state these measures are being pushed, the sponsors are anti-gun lawmakers, simply adds to the suspicion.

"Giving one company a legislated monopoly in any other area would bring down a media firestorm," Gottlieb stated. "The government would never allow it. State senators, representatives or assemblymen who get involved with this effort should ask themselves just what it's worth to essentially be lobbyists for a monopoly."

wow i really am beginning to not like living back here...


to all of you who replied that this cant happen and it wont pass... think again. the daley-blagoevich machine in illinois is really powerful. they recently passed a law that you cannot smoke in any public place, including restaraunts, taverns, etc. how is that constitutional??? it should be up to the owner, who pays taxes and owns the establishment, NOT the government to decide that. if they want your guns, your rights in this state mean nothing, they do what they want. this really scares me. keep this in mind, as we have two of our own hometown heroes running for the democratic president, park ridges own hillary, and "the pride and joy of illinois" barack "supernigger" obama. what they've succeded in doing here, not so much hillary as much as the other one, is on their agenda for the rest of the US once they can seize power.

byf42:

Your use of racist language to describe U.S. Senator Barack Obama gives aid and comfort to the enemies of the Second Amendment. The enemies of our Second Amendment rights will gladly cite your racist language as evidence of the ignorance and arrogance of all who prize the Second Amendment. Opponents of the Second Amendment are clever, numerous and well-financed. Please do not help them by using intemperate language.

Illinois is a state where all gunowners should leave ASAP. I'm gradually coming to the conclusion that the states west of the Mississippi need to form a new country with the exception of Kalifornia. Most of our BS seems to come from the eastern USA. No offense to the AR members living in the east, I know it's not your fault. AR members would be allowed to move to the west when I become king of the West.