I'm currently loading both my .22-250 and my 7mm-08 with H414, and getting excellent results. I consistently see praise of Varget in a multitude of cases and applications, and was wondering if I should switch. I've also noticed people using Varget in a wider range of cases (I've seen loads from .223 to .300 Win Mag). Is there anything specific that makes Varget better than H414, or should I adhere to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" addage?

There's no majik here. Use H-414 or any ball powder where you do a lot of varmint shooting and a lot of reloading. It runs thru powder measures with extreme accuracy and saves a lot of time. I never use anything but ball powder in a progressive press. As to the hunting cartridges Use what ever trips your trigger. H-414 is a fine powder in hunting rounds as well. However the reloading of hunting rounds usually is done in a single stage press where one can individual weigh if one wants and then it's of little conswquence how well the powder measures.

Unless you really wanna mess around, stick with the load that has served you well.

Once I find a load I never let it go.

I've used H414 in 243 for eons. I initially chose it for its metering characteristics and have stayed with it cause it shoots well. I won't change that load but I will look at Varget for other cartidges. I guess it would depend on how much H414 I had in inventory. Right now I've got another 32 pounds to use this year. Maybe I'll use Varget next year.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it is the best advise I can give anyone when they have a tendency to tinker with guns...

quote:

Originally posted by tmoore4627:
I'm currently loading both my .22-250 and my 7mm-08 with H414, and getting excellent results. I consistently see praise of Varget in a multitude of cases and applications, and was wondering if I should switch. I've also noticed people using Varget in a wider range of cases (I've seen loads from .223 to .300 Win Mag). Is there anything specific that makes Varget better than H414, or should I adhere to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" addage?

Ah, yeah, it's a stick powder, that says it all right there, ball powders suck. I've used 760(The same as H414), in my 708, then switched to Varget, and RE15, good bye 760. Jay

quote:

Ah, yeah, it's a stick powder, that says it all right there, ball powders suck.

Jay,

Can you explain just why ball powders "suck"? i have used BL(C)-2 with great success and much prefer it to RL-15 because it flows through the powder measure better...

Regards,

Pete

Pete, Generally have found "ball" powders to be dirty, and temp sensitive. Though they've worked for me in some instances, H380 in the 22-250 and 308 with 165s and got some nice groups when using 38grs 760 with 95VLDs in my 6mm Rem.
When I switched from 760 to Varget for my 708 shooting 150BTs, just had to shun 760 and vow never to use it again in my 708, sure it'll work fine in alot of cartridges, I just like stick powders for what I shoot. Jay

i go along with if it ain't broke don't fix it. but i do use alot of varget. i switched several guns to it several years ago. it is very clean, not temp sensitive and fills 08 class cases very well. i shoot several 08 type cases. and varget shoots better groups for me than others that have been mentioned. i find it meters more consistently than any other stick powder i have used.

jme

arky65

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it is the best advise I can give anyone when they have a tendency to tinker with guns...

I agree with this advice.

I've not yet found any application for Varget in which it performed better than any other powder. But I've found many applications where another powder performed better than Varget. ("Performing better," as I use that term here, means giving either better accuracy or higher velocity or both. It especially means giving both of those together.)

Thanks for your replies, guys. I didn't actually realize Varget was a stick powder (obviously, have never used it). My primary consideration was whether Varget's alleged temperature indiference is really that pronounced over H414, or at least worth the trouble of switching. I have to admit that I love the metering of H414. I use a RCBS Rockchucker (single stage press) and measure every load for my .22-250. Since finding that the ball powder meters within 1/10 of a grain every time, I only check occasionally with the 7mm-08, since I only use it for deer. I guess I'll go with the clear majority and leave it alone unless I have a problem. Thanks guys.

As to Varget being clean -- not in my experience. In at least one application for which I tried it -- I was working to get 30-06 velocity loads from a .300 Weatherby -- it gave the dirtiest results I've ever gotten from any loads and any shooting except for black powder. Accuracy was quite good, however.

Tim, Just wondering what size groups you're getting with your 708 and H414?

Also, did a little test yesterday and found that varget will for the most part stay within 1/10 when measuring through a Hornady measure, in other words, once in awhile I'd get one that was 2/10 off, for 15 throws Varget went 4 @42.2, 9 @42.3 1 @42.4 1 @42.5, 760/H414 was a little more accurate, out of 15 throws, 4 went 45.5, 10 @45.4 and 1 @45.3. Sure H414 is smoother going through a powder measure, but Varget is accurate enough to give it a chance for your 708 at least, when I was using 760 in my 708 I thought it wasn't broke either, 1.5" groups @100yds., then I tried Varget and RE15 and realized it was broke and I fixed it, if you're getting under 1/2" with H414 then I guess it isn't broke, but then you have to think about the temp sensitivity, which is probably not that big a deal, all depends on what temps you'll be shooting in. Jay

tmoore, I have used h414 and Varget with great success in my 22-250. I also have greater success with VV N140 and N150 as well.

I use varget & W760 in my 7mm-08 & find I get slightly more consistant accuracy when using varget.
W760 definately meters better & is supposed to burn at a lower temp but I dont find it as stable as varget in varing temperatures,w760 also tends to cause overpreasure more easially if you are not careful with it when finding max loads.

I Think H414 is close to W760 but not the same.

Give varget a go,i'm sure you'll like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbo:
I use varget & W760 in my 7mm-08 & find I get slightly more consistant accuracy when using varget.
W760 definately meters better & is supposed to burn at a lower temp but I dont find it as stable as varget in varing temperatures,w760 also tends to cause overpreasure more easially if you are not careful with it when finding max loads.

I Think H414 is close to W760 but not the same.

Give varget a go,i'm sure you'll like it.

Tumbo, I've talked to Hodgdon, they're the same, made in the same factory, just different packaging, different lot numbers are why you're seeing different results. Jay

quote:

I've not yet found any application for Varget in which it performed better than any other powder.

I'll second that! In general terms I have to agree that for volume shooters and progressive presses that ball powders are best, BUT I have yet to find a ball powder that will outperform the various stick powders I use, and I have tried, boy have I tried. I do use a lot of ball powders and don't attach any particular stigma to them other than they tend to be a bit dirtier. Just my experience and opinion.

As to Varget, it seems to give good performance across a wide variety of cartridges, but can always be bettered by something else. I burned up 4-5 pounds of it reaching that conclusion.

Thanks guys, that makes me feel better that generally Varget isn't the "wonder powder" a few make it out to be.

Jay--I'm getting between 3/4" and 1" groups, but keep in mind that this is a Rem. Mod. 7 w/ a 20" sporter-weight barrel (and an average-at-best trigger man!) I'm not really concerned about temperature sensativity in the .22-250 because it will mainly be used on nice shooting days. The 7-08, however, is my deer rifle, and could be used anywhere from 10 degrees to 70 degrees. Of course, when shooting at deer, there's a little larger margin of error than with groundhogs...

I've had good groups/velosity in my 7mm-08 with:
H414
H4350
Varget
RL15
IMR4895 (very tiny groups at 2670fps - 40.5 gr)

Shooting here in Florida, temp vary wildly and the velosity of H414 varies accordingly, however, groups are fairly consistant. H4350 is my powder of choice for 140 gr bullets and Varget is becoming my choice for 120 gr bullets.
Hope this helps.

I have had great velocity with the H414 in my 7-08 (2900fps+ w/139's). The Varget will fall way short in velocity, but will probably me more accurate. I have found RL15 to match the velocity of H414 and it should (still playing with it) be more accurate than the H414. Out west where an antelope hunting day can be 90o or 0o, the temperature sensitivity of a ball powder is somthing to consider. Stick powders such as Varget and RL15 do better with the wide swing in temps.

As for the 22-250, you HAVE to try H380. A very impressive powder in that cartridge. Again a temperature sensitive one as well.

Deke.

The " Magical Success" of Varget seems to have escaped my use also...

I was doing testing for a 6mm Remington to take to Montana to do some prairie doggin in June and settled on a 75 grain HP Hornady bullet....

For accuracy, I loaded up 15 different powders, and tried each one for accuracy....

The rifle is a Rem 700, Long Action with a Pac Nor 24 inch Heavy Magnum Sporter barrel on it with a one in 7 twist. Each powder tested gave more than acceptable accuracy...with minimal variation in results....Some being a little tighter than others, but all easily making an easy 350 to 400 yd rifle....

The Very Last Powder I tried was a load of 47 grains of H 414 out of a Hodgdon # 26 manual...
All I got was a one hole group, and not much larger than the diameter of the bullet...
As soon as I learn to post pictures on AR, I wanted to post it for others, plus the results of the other 14 powders...

The hole was tight enough, it did not even look like a 7 mm hole!

Needless to say, I am buying a couple of pounds of H 414 for the trip and 500 of the Hornady 75 grain bullets....

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

I tried Varget in my 6 BR - very accurate but gave velocity much less than the book said.